For What It's Worth...

[Sports Guy]

You know neither do I lol. I think Bedards agent just wants to see how AM handles it. Last year was just bad. So they want to wait and see.

What was so bad about it?

They certainly offered him a fair extension.

[fishteacher]

Nice info Belkast. Its nice to see that Roberts isn't "untouchable". It also sounds like they are going the correct route with Bedard. I like the idea of trying to lock him up, but I tend to agree that he's not going to bite, so they should put his name out there.

Thanks, as always, for the info.

I'm not entirely sure, but why is everyone so "big" on trading Roberts? he's done a lot of good for our team. Is there some negatives I'm missing out on? sure, the vitamin B-12 situation with Tejada, Raffy, and others, opens him up for speculation, but his OBP, SBs, solid fielding, batting avg., doubles, etc. seem to tell me that finding another 2-bagger with his skills or abilities is tough to find. Heck, he was an All-Star for half the season in my opinion.

I love Tejada, but he has to go. Mora won't go anywhere. he's gonna be in LF for us I think from all I've read. I wish we could keep Laura Gibbons without keeping Jay Gibbons (she's not hard on the eyes), but we can't all get what we ask for, so let him go do more 'roids on some other team.

The ONLY WAY I'd trade Bedard is if we get some major talent for him. He's a staff ace, and should be treated as one. Remember the last future staff ace we traded away? No, not Mussina. Schilling. The guy's got what, 3 World Series rings now and a HOF career? Smart move trading him for whoever we got. WAsn't he part of the Glenn Davis trade? What a turd THAT GUY WAS!

[TonySoprano]

He also told me that a offer is being drawn up for Bedard that they think is a fair offer. If Bedard declined which the general feeling is that he will, then Bedard will be put on the table.

There you have it folks; the groundwork has been laid for Bedard's departure and the subsequent storyline fed to the press.

The team expects him to reject what they term to be a "fair offer." By rejecting such an offer, he would be either labeled as unrealistic, or moreover, he did not had the intention of staying long-term regardless of the offer.

[PoorMike]

Is this a cryptic way of saying there is a lot of info on that behind the scenes that can't be aired out?

Like Belk said, I think we all remember the 05 knee thing. It was even in the papers just about every day. The higher ups were convinced that he either had no tolerance for pain or was simply draggin his @$$.

I don't know the behind the scenes stuff, of course.

[PoorMike]

You don't have to hate him. I don't hate Erik Bedard nor would I suggest anyone else should hate him.

It definitely goes beyond "not being good with the media" from time to time with Bedard. Unfortunately I happened to be witness to it on more than one occassion. There's just certain ways you don't talk to or treat other people and he crossed the line.

In my experience, Bedard and Nick Markakis have very similar personalities. Neither are men of many words, but no matter how silly a question might be or how bad a reporter's timing might be, he's never been a jerk.

I will also say that under no circumstances will I allow his demeanor with the media to taint my opinion of him as a ballplayer. I also try to refrain from being opportunistic by taking shots at his persona while discussing his performance. He's a workhorse, he's cerebral, and I gained a lot of respect for him earlier this season when he drilled an opposing hitter in the hip in retaliation for the beanings of Markakis and Tejada.

LOL...on one post game show, Dempsey actually said that Nick and Bedard were alot alike. Of course, he left out the part about Nick actually giving thoughtful answers and Bedard being condescending, which is very apparent to the outside observer.

BTW, if he just wants to play for a winner and wants to be respected (the #1 and #4 from above) I want Bedard on this team....jerk or no.

[JTrea81]

There you have it folks; the groundwork has been laid for Bedard's departure and the subsequent storyline fed to the press.

The team expects him to reject what they term to be a "fair offer." By rejecting such an offer, he would be either labeled as unrealistic, or moreover, he did not had the intention of staying long-term regardless of the offer.

Which is stupid to make the offer in the first place. If you know he is going to turn it down, don't make the offer and just deal the guy and say it was best for the team...

[TGO]

I'm not entirely sure, but why is everyone so "big" on trading Roberts?

Roberts is 30 now and should be at his peak value. Most people here love the guy. Those that want to trade him just think now is the right time to deal him, while his value is maximized and should not increase, and the team is unlikely to compete in 2008 (and probably will not compete in 2009 without significant infusions of talent, which trading Roberts could help provide).

[TonySoprano]

So here's a thought, if all this stuff is being leaked, why even offer the extension - just deal him. The O's and Bedard must know where they stand with each other by now...

Which is stupid to make the offer in the first place. If you know he is going to turn it down, don't make the offer and just deal the guy and say it was best for the team...

Because it's all for appearances sake. Smoke and mirrors. The team took a big PR hit when Mussina left. They need to paint Bedard as the unreasonable, disloyal bad guy. As far as Joe Averagefan in Dundalk would know, the team did everything they could and Bedard didn't return the team's loyalty.

[PoorMike]

Thanks for the continued info Belkast. Anyone, does Baez need to be on the 40 man roster for the O's to collect insurance? We may need the room if that is the case.

He may indeed need to to be on the 40 man. I know that Albert Belle did.

He needs to be on the 40 man regardless by the winter meetings.

I really don't see how they can get rid of Gibbons or Baez. If they do, it'll be a neat trick.

[Sports Guy]

I'm not entirely sure, but why is everyone so "big" on trading Roberts? he's done a lot of good for our team. Is there some negatives I'm missing out on? sure, the vitamin B-12 situation with Tejada, Raffy, and others, opens him up for speculation, but his OBP, SBs, solid fielding, batting avg., doubles, etc. seem to tell me that finding another 2-bagger with his skills or abilities is tough to find. Heck, he was an All-Star for half the season in my opinion.

I love Tejada, but he has to go. Mora won't go anywhere. he's gonna be in LF for us I think from all I've read. I wish we could keep Laura Gibbons without keeping Jay Gibbons (she's not hard on the eyes), but we can't all get what we ask for, so let him go do more 'roids on some other team.

The ONLY WAY I'd trade Bedard is if we get some major talent for him. He's a staff ace, and should be treated as one. Remember the last future staff ace we traded away? No, not Mussina. Schilling. The guy's got what, 3 World Series rings now and a HOF career? Smart move trading him for whoever we got. WAsn't he part of the Glenn Davis trade? What a turd THAT GUY WAS!

The idea of trading Bedard and BRob is simple...This organization and team has a ton of holes in it...These guys are likely not going to sign here past 2009 at the current rate.

We are also not likely to contend with them through 2009.

So, we could either trade them now, fill a bunch of holes, get younger, deeper, cheaper and more talented or we could hang onto these guys, watch them play for 2 years while we may win 80 games and then they leave via FA, leaving us only draft picks that hopefully can pan out by 2012.

All of this so we can hold onto a fan favorite and an ace that makes no difference in whether we are good or we suck.

[PoorMike]

Roberts is 30 now and should be at his peak value. Most people here love the guy. Those that want to trade him just think now is the right time to deal him, while his value is maximized and should not increase, and the team is unlikely to compete in 2008 (and probably will not compete in 2009 without significant infusions of talent, which trading Roberts could help provide).

I second that.

I really like BR....but his value will probably only go down from here. I don't see BR still being here by the time the O's are winning again.

[Rockbird]

You know I would also like to point out that since AM has been here PGA has stayed out of all decisions except when AM asks for his participation. This is Andy's show and PGA is not getting involved at all! Now don't get me wrong anything big AM would obviously keep him informed, which every team does with the owner. PGA has made a good decision with AM and more importantly he is letting the baseball people do what they do best.

You and bigbird definitely have different "guys"

Seriously thanks for all the information and active participation, Belkast, we all appreciate it. If it all happens it will be a very productive offseason but I'm just bracing myself for disappointment as it seems these plans always fall through with the O's.

[djp200]

I want the O's to rebuild completely more than anyone. I've been preaching a complete blowup of the team on this board for years now. But I'm not as quite sold on the urgency to trade Bedard as others here seem to be. I'm not advocating to hold onto Bedard. I think I'm just torn.

I know Bedard is our biggest chip for rebuilding. I know it's exciting to think about the return we might get and how that return can jumpstart the rebuilding process. But before envisioning a hefty return like Cleveland's from Montreal for Bartolo Colon, remember that prospects are just prospects. A bird in the hand >>> two in the bush. The Colon trade was a unique circumstance in which Omar Minaya wasn't sure if the Expos would still be around and didn't feel the need to hang onto any prospects. The current thinking in MLB seems to be to hold onto your top prospects so it doesn't bode well for the O's to get a similar return.

The A's trades of Hudson and Mulder returned a boatload of well-regarded prospects. The Mulder trade has worked out with Haren and perhaps Daric Barton. But the Hudson trade hasn't worked out at all. I guess my point is that I want to hold off on the enthusiasm to trade Bedard and the character assasinations. There's no guarantee that the return will pan out.

If Bedard's main problem with the team was how he was treated last offseason, then it can be easily fixed. There are certainly pieces of evidence that suggest Bedard doesn't like the team. But money tends to talk and I'm sure that whatever qualms he has with the team can be easily rectified with a healthy extension.

The wanting to be on a winning team part--that's a bit more difficult to fix. AM would have to sell the team very hard on its plans for Bedard to be convinced. I'm not sure that'll work. There'd be at least a few years of waiting and even he'd realize that the prospect route would take a lot of time.

Belkast--thanks, as always, for the juicy tidbits.

[JTrea81]

Because it's all for appearances sake. Smoke and mirrors. The team took a big PR hit when Mussina left. They need to paint Bedard as the unreasonable, disloyal bad guy. As far as Joe Averagefan in Dundalk would know, the team did everything they could and Bedard didn't return the team's loyalty.

I would hope the fanbase would be smarter than that. If Bedard doesn't want to be here,there's no reason to turn him into a villain. The guy just wants to leave, so we'll grant his request without him asking for it. This isn't a situation that's been handled poorly. I believe Mussina's negotiations or lack there of were very public. Bedard has handled this the right way...

[clapdiddy]

Because it's all for appearances sake. Smoke and mirrors. The team took a big PR hit when Mussina left. They need to paint Bedard as the unreasonable, disloyal bad guy. As far as Joe Averagefan in Dundalk would know, the team did everything they could and Bedard didn't return the team's loyalty.

You know what...I tend to agree with SG on pitchers. Rarely are they worth the long term dollars they get due to injuries or ineffectiveness. I think I'd make an exception for Bedard and offer him a 5 year deal now, but there's no way I'd go longer than that. If he wont sign a 4 or 5 year deal now, I'd be done with it and start taking bids. I don't really want to wait for the season to start. I just think that pitchers are too volatile.