Bonds trial underway

[Moose Milligan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6243247

Even though I'm someone who went from a very anti steroids/PED's stance to someone who's generally accepting of them and doesn't really care anymore...I still say: Fry, Barry, fry.

[waroriole]

The resumption of the Salem Witch Trials. How wonderful:rolleyes:

[JamesI]

The resumption of the Salem Witch Trials. How wonderful:rolleyes:

So we should look the other way when people commit crimes?

Though, to be fair, the government is pursuing Bonds more vigorously than others in the same circumstances.

[waroriole]

So we should look the other way when people commit crimes?

Though, to be fair, the government is pursuing Bonds more vigorously than others in the same circumstances.

Your second line is my point. There has only been one person in the fed's crosshairs on this issue.

[waroriole]

I don't think the government should be wasting their time with baseball at all, so I also don't give a crap if Bonds lied or not.

BTW, the dude was basically barred from baseball after putting up a 1.045 OPS in 2007. That alone is punishment enough, he probably could have played a few more years...

Yeah, he would have put the HR record out of reach.

[Moose Milligan]

Your second line is my point. There has only been one person in the fed's crosshairs on this issue.

To be fair, Bonds and Clemens have been the only ones who have been raging a-holes about this entire thing. They've been the only ones to continually deny their involvement. Everyone else who has been busted has fessed up, said they're sorry and everyone has moved on.

A-Rod, Giambi, Manny...all apologized. We can debate whether or not they were sorry they got caught or not but you can look at all of those guys and the PED issue is largely in the rear view mirror for all of those guys.

There have been two people in the fed's crosshairs on this issue. Why? Cause they think they're bigger than the game and don't have to apologize to anyone.

[waroriole]

To be fair, Bonds and Clemens have been the only ones who have been raging a-holes about this entire thing. They've been the only ones to continually deny their involvement. Everyone else who has been busted has fessed up, said they're sorry and everyone has moved on.

A-Rod, Giambi, Manny...all apologized. We can debate whether or not they were sorry they got caught or not but you can look at all of those guys and the PED issue is largely in the rear view mirror for all of those guys.

There have been two people in the fed's crosshairs on this issue. Why? Cause they think they're bigger than the game and don't have to apologize to anyone.

So, you're telling me that the reason they are being prosecuted is because they didn't mind their manners?

[JamesI]

So, you're telling me that the reason they are being prosecuted is because they didn't mind their manners?

No, its because everyone else caught doing steroids (to the best of our knowledge) told the truth under oath(excepting Palmeiro who the government admited they can't prove did steroids before testifying) or never testified under oath (like ARod I don't think has ever had to testify, or Brian Roberts for that matter)

Giambi told the truth under oath. So no trial. Bonds lied and has continued to lie, same for Clemens. The government usually comes down hard on people who lie to the government.

[JDubs]

Screw all the Barry sympathy, for so many reasons.

1) He did the crime, he should do the time. How hard the government has gone at him is irrelevant. Heck, it is the government's job to zealously pursue criminals--and Bonds has broken the law. If anything, you should be angry at the government for not as zealously pursuing everyone else. But good job on getting Barry.

2) The government is not going harder at bonds than anyone else. They are following the evidence and since Bonds has been a giant dick to everyone in his life, there has been no shortage of people coming forward to the government with new information against him.

3) Even though Bonds is one of a great many who used steroids, the high profile nature of his offenses will serve as a statement to everyone that no one is immune from the requirements of law. Even though he is not being charged with steroid-related crimes, it does send a message to athletes that there are consequences related to the use of PEDs. Even more, it sends a high profile message to all citizens: Do not lie to a federal grand jury. And that message is much louder than if even a senator were charged because people are more plugged into sports than politics (as sad as that is). To those that say, "stay out of baseball"...fine, but this isn't really about baseball anymore. It changed as soon as he lied under oath. No matter what you think about the government's regulation of sports (and by the way, the government regulates pretty much every industry), there are very real, legitimate reasons to prosecute individuals who knowingly lie under oath.

4) And finally (although this list is not comprehensive), he has been completely unrepentant to the point of arrogance. This is a man who first committed fraud on the game of baseball (who admittedly was complicit), but then attempted to commit fraud upon the U.S. Government by blatantly lying to a grand jury. He believes that he is above the law and has acted as such. Now he is finding out otherwise. He's not getting any sympathy from me.

[Can_of_corn]

No, its because everyone else caught doing steroids (to the best of our knowledge) told the truth under oath(excepting Palmeiro who the government admited they can't prove did steroids before testifying) or never testified under oath (like ARod I don't think has ever had to testify, or Brian Roberts for that matter)

Giambi told the truth under oath. So no trial. Bonds lied and has continued to lie, same for Clemens. The government usually comes down hard on people who lie to the government.

Really?

Care to find me a quote where Sheffield admitted knowingly using steroids? I could have sworn what he said was basically "Bonds gave me this stuff and I used it."

Or do you think Sheffield of all people, would use something without knowning what what in it?

[Can_of_corn]

Also, HUGE waste of time and money by out government. Bond's trainer has spent more time in jail then many felons. Trying to submit as evidence tapes of him being verbal abusive to his ex-mistress? Like you need steriods to be an ass to a member of the opposite sex.

Posanski said it well:

… on the one hand you have someone who is probably lying — and obviously we should not stand for people lying to grand juries. On the other, you have what seems an extreme use of government power and money and shaky methods to nail him for this lie. Supposedly at some point during this trial we are going to get a spurned girlfriend telling the court all about Barry Bonds’ sex life and mood swings. The whole thing feels unseemly

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/03/20/the-bonds-trial/

[JamesI]

Really?

Care to find me a quote where Sheffield admitted knowingly using steroids? I could have sworn what he said was basically "Bonds gave me this stuff and I used it."

Or do you think Sheffield of all people, would use something without knowning what what in it?

I know what Sheffield said to the press, but no idea what he said to the grand jury. Do we know he didn't tell the Grand jury he did steroids? If so, then he should be being prosecuted too (though the evidence against him may be far weaker since if Bonds was his supplier they won't have Balco records)

I don't think any player would take something without knowing what it was.

[mweb]

Bonds has admitted to using, just not that he knew what he was using. Do I think he's lying? Yes. Do I think this is worth the governments time and money? Absolutely not.

To me, going after athletes who have used steroids is like going after people who recreationally smoke pot. Neither are nearly as bad as they're made out to be and I don't think the government should be going after people who use these things.

So for the person who asked if we should look the other way when people commit crimes: well I don't think these should be crimes, but since they are, yes I do. Certain crimes are often ignored so lets not act like this would be setting some precedent for looking the other way.

As far as the apology thing, I've always thought that was a weak and somewhat dishonest argument for why Bonds should be vilified but so many others are not. Sure, it would have been nice if he gave an insincere apology like various others, but I think its clear that the reasons for the hate go well beyond that.

[SammyBirdland]

I say the government should let it go. The Bonds issue has already served its purpose. It taught MLB that they have to do a better job of hiding their PED use.

[Can_of_corn]

I know what Sheffield said to the press, but no idea what he said to the grand jury. Do we know he didn't tell the Grand jury he did steroids? If so, then he should be being prosecuted too (though the evidence against him may be far weaker since if Bonds was his supplier they won't have Balco records)

I don't think any player would take something without knowing what it was.

Here is an article I just googled up.

Interviewed on July's installment of HBO's series "Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel," Sheffield unveiled his own unique version of a defense. Yes, he said, as the leaked grand jury testimony indicated, he had indeed used "the clear' (which is applied under the tongue) and "the cream," which is applied to the skin. He says Barry Bonds persuaded him to use both, and that he was misled into believing they were both for "muscle recovery." Now, this would seem to be a variation on the Bonds excuse, which is also known as the "Though I knew about steroids and that other players used them and knew that the guy giving me a substance that looked like a drug was a likely steroid-user and though I normally take fanatic control of everything related to my career and training I just used this stuff without bothering to find out what it was or whether it was legal Defense," or, to be more concise, the "How would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge Defense" or to be even more concise, hogwash. But Sheffield goes one creatively dishonest step further: he still adamantly swears that he never used steroids. How can this be?

http://www.ethicsscoreboard.com/liars/0707_sheffield.html

So why isn't their an uproar over Shef's potential perjury? It sure isn't because he was/is a nicer person then Bonds, or noticeably more humble. I posit it is because he didn't break a couple of the records Bonds broke.