Situational Hitting

[srock]

I just want to see a successful suicide squeeze play...just one!

Oh look we got a guy from Pasadena and one from New Jersey in the same conversation and they are fighting...surprise, surprise.

[Baltimoron]

Exactly. Just like it would be stupid for Pujols or Bonds or Hafner, etc to limit themselves to a sac fly unless it is late in the game and have a reason to be playing for only one run.

I think this is apples and oranges. With a great hitter like you mention or Tejada, the idea is to look for a ball to drive, so by simply doing what they do best they will produce a number of sacrifice flies (as well as big hits) with runners on third.

I view Tejada looking to hit a groundball the other way to advance a runner from second an entirely different situation, where the hitter sacrifices the opportunity to look to drive the ball for one in which he looks to hit a weak grounder the other way. (Obvious this analysis is quite different for a left hander, who in looking to pull a a ball with a runner on second is acting more consistent with an approach that is also looking to drive a ball).

[CrimsonTribe]

Stupid is when some guy gets on here and says he played at this level or that level and "This is how I used to do it. I can't understand why the ML players can't do it". The utter ridiculousness of statements like this are INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!

HELLO!!!!!!

I guess you're taking my signature to heart.

[AgentOrange]

How many times has Hafner been in that situtation when he hasn't driven in the run? How many times is he even pitched to in that situation?

We have seen Markakis...We know this is something he needs to work on.

Come on RZ, you are thinking way too narrow minded right now.

Hafner has 21 ABs with a runner on third and less than 2 outs.

Of those ABs, how important was that run? Who knows. For your logic to be correct, all 21 ABs that he has had would have to have the guy on third either being the tying or winning/go ahead run.

If they are not, it doesn't make sense for Hafner to try to hit a sac fly.

Actually, there is more than 1 way to get a runner home in that situation anyways. If the infield is drawn in, he may just try and hit a ball past the drawn in infield. There are many more vairables to take into consideration when looking at these situations.

And BTW, he is 10 for 21 in those situations. With 29 RBI's.

[Baltimoron]

How many times has Hafner been in that situtation when he hasn't driven in the run? How many times is he even pitched to in that situation?

We have seen Markakis...We know this is something he needs to work on.

I know what point you are trying to make but Markakis and Hafner are two entierly different hitters. We all have high hopes for Nick, but Hafner's one of the best hitters in the league, and his more powerful approach is naturally going to produce a geat deal more flyballs than Nick.

IMO its one thing to suggets Nick should look to elevate the ball more as part of a general approach, its another to suggest he should get away from why he is such a highly regarded young hitter in the some of the most important situations in which he will come to the plate.

[Sports Guy]

Well, which is it? You said it's easy to hit a sac fly. Now you're saying there are other ways to get the run in. Which is the best way? What should have Markakis done yesterday?

Waited for a better pitch to hit...Its that simple. He still may not have hit the sac fly but he would have put himself in better position to do so.

[Sports Guy]

So Hafner shouldn't try to hit sac flies but Markakis should. Right?

Yes that is what i am saying.

Let me say this again, so maybe you can understand it.

HE NEEDS TO GO AFTER BETTER PITCHES IN THESE SITUATIONS! He needs to not swing at first pitch, inside sinkers.

He needs to use his normal patient approach and look for a pitch to drive. In these situations, he seems to become more antsy and aggressive.

I am not saying this is some awful, uncorrectable thing...But it is something he needs to work on and it goes along with the context of this thread, which is abotu situational hitting.

[srock]

Pitch selection and plate discipline are two very important factors in situational hitting. It can be a mental block for some players. Markakis clearly failed at both these mental tests during his at bat yesterday.

[El Gordo]

Probably becuase he's one of the best hitters in baseball and its silly for him to look to hit a weak ground ball the other way, especially in less than 2 strike counts. You're also overstating Tejada's apparent inability to hit ground balls the other way.

It isn't when that one run could tie the game. What good does striking out do? And how was I overstating his apparrant inability to hit ground balls when I was saying he had the ability but didn't choose to do so?

[AgentOrange]

Well, which is it? You said it's easy to hit a sac fly. Now you're saying there are other ways to get the run in. Which is the best way? What should have Markakis done yesterday?

It is easy to hit a sac fly if you have the right frame of mind.

I don't know how the D was aligned yesterday, I didn't watch the game. If the infield was drawn in, he can get away with trying to hit it past the drawn in infield.

Its all about the approach.

[AgentOrange]

I was just out for lunch. Apparently you haven't gotten back yet.

I know, I am eating now...

[Baltimoron]

It isn't when that one run could tie the game.

Yes it is. While you're thrown out a vague description, I understand us to be discussing a spot where there is a runner on second and less than 2 outs. Its sub-optimal for Tejada to effectively sacrifice himself in such a spot.

What good does striking out do?

Results oriented thinking will get you nowhere. If he gets a hit its OK, but if he makes a "non-productive" out, no go? Basically, you are overvaluing the extent to which an out is productive and drastically undervaluing Tejada's offensive contibution when he is doing what he does best, which is looking to drive a pitch.

And how was I overstating his apparrant inability to hit ground balls when I was saying he had the ability but didn't choose to do so?

Because he has hit groundballs to the other side to advance runners. You think he should choose to try to do so more than what I and many others would argue is optimal. But its doesn't change the fact that he has done so.

To refresh, your original point was:

But some guys like Tejada wont put the ball in play to move the runner or score a run on a ground out when they have the ability to do so.

[BaltimO's35]

Its ridiculous to suggest that Major League hitters don't have the skill to change their swing to produce different results (ie a groundball the other way to advance a runner... or perhaps even a flyball to score a runner). However, I believe the most important factor, like Sports Guy has said, is pitch selection. If you can get a pitch up in the zone with little to no 12-6 movement (a hanging offspeed pitch or four seam fastball), you have a much better chance of elevating the ball in play and scoring the run. Markakis should not have swung at that first pitch. That said, Halladays sinker has dramatic late action and I cannot fault a rookie for being fooled.

[Baltimoron]

Its ridiculous to suggest that Major League hitters don't have the skill to change their swing to produce different results (ie a groundball the other way to advance a runner... or perhaps even a flyball to score a runner).

The issue is not whether they can change their swing to maximize their chances of hitting a groundball or a flyball (and this skill varies greatly), but whether they should and if so, how often.

[AgentOrange]

The issue is not whether they can change their swing to maximize their chances of hitting a groundball or a flyball (and this skill varies greatly), but whether they should and if so, how often.

Well I think RZ thinks that they don't have the ability to do so.

He is using the fact that they don't have a lot of sac flys as the main fact that it is very hard to get a sac fly when you want to.

My idea is that there are too many grey areas to use this stat an call it fact.