Showalter gives Fox an earful

[Malike]

I thought the issue was that Fox intentionally extended the AB by swinging at a CLEAR ball four (as in, bounced or way up or out or something like that), so he didn't have to walk.

Leyland isn't getting angry over someone swinging on 3-0, people. Has to be something like I stated above.

I mean, I did that in a lawyers' softball league game and felt "dirty" doing it.

I agree with this post. It was definitely something more than swinging on 3-0.

[El Gordo]

If Buck had the take sign on and Fox swung anyway that's one thing. But I doubt the take sign was on. I think Bucjk just expected Fox to know what the gentlemanly thing to do was. Big over reaction IMO. Probably Buck embarassed in front of Leyland the dean of ML mgrs.:rolleyestf:

[MurphDogg]

I don't think Fox did anything wrong.

Buck and Leyland may want to play the game the right way, but this isn't an example.

Leyland needs to stop being a grumpy old man, and Buck needs to stop the holier than thou parade. Buck wants to say this and that about Theo and Derek, and that's ok..but Fox swinging away at 3-0 against a pitcher who is struggling in spring training up by 10? What's the big deal here, again?

Good for Jake Fox. I'd do it if I were him.

If the manager gives you the take sign, you take the pitch. If you are up ten runs in the late innings against a minor league pitcher you shouldn't even need the take sign. If it was Pie, everybody would be flipping out and talking about how he has no baseball smarts and an attitude problem.

You don't show up the opposition, even in Spring Training.

[orayole]

If the manager gives you the take sign, you take the pitch. If you are up ten runs in the late innings against a minor league pitcher you shouldn't even need the take sign. If it was Pie, everybody would be flipping out and talking about how he has no baseball smarts and an attitude problem.

You don't show up the opposition, even in Spring Training.

There was no take sign. It was one of those stupid 'unwritten rules'.

I don't see it as showing someone up. I see it as getting my work in. There's a limited number of at bats in spring training and for someone trying to make the team he needs to get a use of them. Giving them up because the managers are a bunch of cranky old men that believe in unwritten rules is nonsense.

[MurphDogg]

There was no take sign. It was one of those stupid 'unwritten rules'.

I don't see it as showing someone up. I see it as getting my work in. There's a limited number of at bats in spring training and for someone trying to make the team he needs to get a use of them. Giving them up because the managers are a bunch of cranky old men that believe in unwritten rules is nonsense.

Fox has more at-bats than any player on the team, if it was Derrek Lee swinging away in that situation, that argument might hold water but Fox has gotten his at-bats in. Also, he has clearly made the team, the idea that whether Fox makes the team is dependent on swinging at a 3-0 pitch against a AAA pitcher is silly. A take sign is implied on 3-0 pitches.

[GoldGlove21]

I have never heard anything about swinging at a 3-0 pitch when you are up by 10 as being disrespectful to the other team. Maybe Fox was given the take sign and decided he was going to swing. Going against the manager's wishes would certain upset me if I was a coach, but what separates that from a guy swinging at a pitch when he is getting intentionally walked or Manny high fiving a fan as he makes a catch.

There are a lot of ways to show up another team, but can you really show up a team in a spring game that doesn't count? The Orioles lost to the Rangers by 30 runs one night. Sure the Orioles pitchers were bad, but Texas kept swinging away and I bet that if we looked at the tape there were some

3-0 or 3-1 swings in that game as well.

[El Gordo]

Fox has more at-bats than any player on the team, if it was Derrek Lee swinging away in that situation, that argument might hold water but Fox has gotten his at-bats in. Also, he has clearly made the team, the idea that whether Fox makes the team is dependent on swinging at a 3-0 pitch against a AAA pitcher is silly. A take sign is implied on 3-0 pitches.

He can't assume that. Ridiculous.

[now]

I thought the issue was that Fox intentionally extended the AB by swinging at a CLEAR ball four (as in, bounced or way up or out or something like that), so he didn't have to walk.

I mean, I did that in a lawyers' softball league game and felt "dirty" doing it.

Now I'm convinced it was a REALLY bad thing! :laughlol:

[ChaosLex]

You shouldn't show up the competition. However, I find it hard to feel bad for any team we're "pounding" on, considering we lost a game 30-3 a few years back.

[Eddie_Murray33]

I'm with Buck on this one. Jake Fox's "Quest to make the 2011 Baltimore Orioles" is not larger or more important than the team and how it's perceived by its peers. Play the game the right way- at all times. Whether that means taking 3-0 against a minor leaguer in a game you're up 10 in- simply obeying the signs you've been given- or avoiding any other violation of game etiquette that perhaps we as fans may not even be aware of or fully comprehend. Furthermore- I am no expert about the unwritten code(s) of baseball- but it seems to me that if Buck establishes that even minor breaches (if that is what this is) will illicit this type of reaction from him then I hazard to guess his players will be all the more likely to stay well away from MAJOR breaches. That to me is a good thing.

All that being said- provided Fox isn't habitually ignoring signs- I hope this will go down as a "lesson-learned" (or re-learned) and that Fox will have a clean record with Buck relatively soon. That's certainly my prediction.

[daringdaryl]

Was anyone else at that 30-3 game and did you stay till the end?

I was as the game went on I just wanted to know if it was possible to give up more runs. We did.

[eb45]

If there was no take sign on and he swung at the ball with the intention of hitting it, then Buck overreacted. Otherwise, Fox was at fault.

Stotle brings up a great point, but considering he ended up walking on the next pitch, I don't think he was just trying to extend the AB to get the ST HR record.

[Enjoy Terror]

Was anyone else at that 30-3 game and did you stay till the end?

I was as the game went on I just wanted to know if it was possible to give up more runs. We did.

I think a lot of people stayed. That was a double header, if I recall correctly.

[JohnD]

It's bad baseball, yes, and I can easily see how Buck would be upset by it.

But I can also see why Fox would swing away. Dude is battling for his career. He's already been dumped by two teams and is never going to have the kind of security others do. He needs to produce no matter what the situation, and with two guys in scoring position, that's a prime opportunity.

And to heck with Leyland. Dean of managers my butt. He's a quitter and a surly jerk. I could care less that he was upset.

[Araqnid]

I wonder how much of Buck's tirade was a show to protect Fox and the other players from retribution - like, maybe Leyland would see that Buck was clearly pissed about that and might let it go?