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RVAbird All-Star

RVAbird

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What's TJ using for his out pitch these days? Almost sounds like he's thinking too much and trying to set up too perfectly and pitch with no contact allowed all game.

I know to some degree Bauer does it.

Really? Jungmann has pitched to contact most of the year, significantly lowering his K and BB rates.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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Really? Jungmann has pitched to contact most of the year, significantly lowering his K and BB rates.

Not with pitch counts that high. If he finally starts throwing to contact when he's already thrown 10 pitches in the at bat it doesn't count ;)

I don't know what he's been doing the rest of the year, I haven't been watching his pitch counts much honestly, but anyone throwing that many pitches and not giving up a ton of hits or runs like Bauer does really makes you step back and say, ok how does that happen.

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RVAbird All-Star

RVAbird

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Not with pitch counts that high. If he finally starts throwing to contact when he's already thrown 10 pitches in the at bat it doesn't count ;)

I don't know what he's been doing the rest of the year, I haven't been watching his pitch counts much honestly, but anyone throwing that many pitches and not giving up a ton of hits or runs like Bauer does really makes you step back and say, ok how does that happen.

Having watched a few of his starts and drawing inference here, it's because he has a little bit of trouble finishing off at-bats. Not to the extent that Bauer does (when he throws 120-130 pitches in 6-7 inning stints at times), but to a certain extent. Good amount of foul balls.

I don't think he's avoiding contact, he's just letting ABs get extended a bit.

BTW, 130 pitches isn't crazy for a complete game with four walks. It's the type of outing that would get a ML starter pulled after 7 or 8 innings at around 100-110 pitches.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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Having watched a few of his starts and drawing inference here, it's because he has a little bit of trouble finishing off at-bats. Not to the extent that Bauer does (when he throws 120-130 pitches in 6-7 inning stints at times), but to a certain extent. Good amount of foul balls.

I don't think he's avoiding contact, he's just letting ABs get extended a bit.

BTW, 130 pitches isn't crazy for a complete game with four walks. It's the type of outing that would get a ML starter pulled after 7 or 8 innings at around 100-110 pitches.

Yeah I could see that, especially because he's not a groundball guy, but I guess what I was getting at is that he either doesn't have a go-to swing and miss pitch, or it wasn't working that day. I was more implying that Bauer is definitely like that, and it seemed to me that he was following that kind of pitching today. Like Nick said though, if he didn't have his good stuff I could see that happening as he's just trying to find different combos to work with than he's used to. I never really thought of him as a "nibbler".

You're right, it's not completely crazy, I guess it's just 14 pitches per inning which is what, about 5 pitches per out? Not crazy. I just always get baffled by high pitch counts from guys with very few hits allowed. I guess 4 BB and 7 K is 11 times counts could get pretty loaded though.

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RVAbird All-Star

RVAbird

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Yeah I could see that, especially because he's not a groundball guy, but I guess what I was getting at is that he either doesn't have a go-to swing and miss pitch, or it wasn't working that day. I was more implying that Bauer is definitely like that, and it seemed to me that he was following that kind of pitching today. Like Nick said though, if he didn't have his good stuff I could see that happening as he's just trying to find different combos to work with than he's used to. I never really thought of him as a "nibbler".

You're right, it's not completely crazy, I guess it's just 14 pitches per inning which is what, about 5 pitches per out? Not crazy. I just always get baffled by high pitch counts from guys with very few hits allowed. I guess 4 BB and 7 K is 11 times counts could get pretty loaded though.

No I hear you completely. I think we're on the same page here. One of my concerns Re: Jungmann is the lack of the swing and miss. Not only does it produce (only) solid K rates, but it can extend ABs from time to time. I think he's been pretty efficient this season either way, somewhat helped by a low BABIP.

NOTE that this is NOT A COMP, mainly due to very different bodies and deliveries, but in terms of projecting future peripherals I am reminded of Jeremy Guthrie. A fastball with good mid-90s velo, probably only average to above average movement, and, despite good control, sometimes spotty command in the zone, sets up an above average slider and a usuable change. I'm seeing a K-rate in the 6s and a BB rate around 3, good pitchability and feel. Prone to giving up the long ball from time to time. Potential to be a solid #2/3 starter with ERAs hovering around 4. Maybe a little better than that.

FWIW, Jungmann's junior campaign with this start included will have a K/9 around 8.5 and a BB/9 around 2. Guthrie, in his senior year in Stanford posted a K/9 of 7.8 and a BB/9 of 2.1. The bats and offensive environment have changed some, though.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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Why do these college coaches have their pitchers throw so many innings...Do they ever think about long term health of the pitcher?

Nope, they are worried about winning, and keeping their own jobs. That is the risk ran in going to college, but some kids just aren't ready yet out of high school. See: Strasburg, Stephen.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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What's TJ using for his out pitch these days? Almost sounds like he's thinking too much and trying to set up too perfectly and pitch with no contact allowed all game.

I know to some degree Bauer does it.

He's nasty because FB/SV/CH are all out pitches. Doesn't really favor one, and SV/CH have improved dramatically from command standpoint with his mechanical tweaks this year.

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