SUN: O's search for relief

[TonySoprano]

Isn't that every bullpen at times?

Every bullpen has flaws, I grant you. However, the quote from Flanagan doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence in their evaluations.

"It's the nature of relievers overall," Flanagan said. "It almost seems like you're better off if they're coming off a bad year than a good one. It's the ebb and flow of being a reliever."

[mweb]

I'm not saying to build the bullpen completely from within. The veterans have their place in the pen - just that they are just as much an unknown as the rookies.

No they're not, Flanagan just hasn't been good in picking them.

[Avsfan]

the quote from Flanagan

Maybe that's why Russ Ortiz is still around? Might Brower come back again?

[Moose Milligan]

Every bullpen has flaws, I grant you. However, the quote from Flanagan doesn't instill me with a lot of confidence in their evaluations.

I agree.

I've said it on here a bunch of times before and I'll say it again. Don't sign guys who are on the downside of their peak or past it.

I'd also venture out and say don't bring guys in from the NL, since the ones we've brought in have been pretty craptacular.

Flanagan just makes it seem like they're throwing darts or drawing straws in the warehouse to make decisions.

And that's just maddening.

I'm not sure what my reputation is on this board I'm not sure if people view me as a Sapper, NMS or Mikezpen (and I like those guys). I'd like to have a positive outlook on the future, I REALLY would. But it's little stuff like this, like the tidbit on us resigning Hawkins and the Flanagan quote that just leave me scratching my head and a bit irate.

[orioles119]

Arthur Rhodes will return "home" to instill some of that good ole' veteran presence to the bullpen.

[Moose Milligan]

Arthur Rhodes will return "home" to instill some of that good ole' veteran presence to the bullpen.

You mean get shellacked?

I say we bring Alan Mills out of retirement, too.

[Avsfan]

You mean get shellacked?

I say we bring Alan Mills out of retirement, too.

Hey man! Don't rag on the Fu Man Chu!

[TonySoprano]

I say we bring Alan Mills out of retirement, too.

I'd pay money to see him step in the ring with Darryl Strawberry.

[Sapper]

vice president Jim Duquette concedes that the front office overestimated what it had coming into the season.

That part gives me very little hope that this group of retreads can be trusted to know anything. Most of us here were more realistic apparently than our "baseball people" in the front office.

[Moose Milligan]

Hey man! Don't rag on the Fu Man Chu!

Not ragging on the Fu Manchu at all! I loved Mills and Rhodes, those two were badasses. I liked our bullpen back then.

Just figures we'd bring back someone past their prime, is all.

And Soprano...Mills would knock a mother****er out. I have a feeling that Mills was like the Samuel L Jackson of middle relievers. At least thats how he appears in my mind. That old cokehead wouldn't stand a chance against Alan Mills

[Sapper]

The Orioles would like to re-sign pending free agent LaTroy Hawkins, but only at a reduced price.

This epitomizes the reason why we SUCK! These f'ing morons and that cheapskate in the law firm the best they can do is try to resign Hawkins at a "reduced price"? What about the MASN money????!!!!

Don't do us any favors. If this front office were any slower time would possibly stop within the warehouse perfectly preserving their stupidity in crystaline perfection for all ages to witness. (It certainly seems to never end for us.)

[bgfield]

That part gives me very little hope that this group of retreads can be trusted to know anything. Most of us here were more realistic apparently than our "baseball people" in the front office.

I think a lot of us overestimated what we had. There were those of us coming into this season who saw this team as capable of winning 90 games or losing 90 games. If Cabrera and Bedard had improved as expected, Chen and Lopez hadn't regressed so, and Benson pitched exactly as he has, we probably wouldn't be in contention but we'd be looking like a much improved ballclub.

Unfortunately, Cabrera, Lopez, and Chen regressed in a big way, and Bedard was rather inconsistent until June. Should we fault that "group of retards" for placing hope in two of our younger pitchers? Should we fault them for not predicting that not only would Rodrigo regress, but regress to the point that he'd have one of the highest ERA's in the majors?

A lot went wrong this season. I'm glad that the front office is admitting their mistakes. That's the first step that needs to be taken to ensuring that those mistakes aren't made again.

[Sapper]

I think a lot of us overestimated what we had. There were those of us coming into this season who saw this team as capable of winning 90 games or losing 90 games. If Cabrera and Bedard had improved as expected, Chen and Lopez hadn't regressed so, and Benson pitched exactly as he has, we probably wouldn't be in contention but we'd be looking like a much improved ballclub.

Unfortunately, Cabrera, Lopez, and Chen regressed in a big way, and Bedard was rather inconsistent until June. Should we fault that "group of retards" for placing hope in two of our younger pitchers? Should we fault them for not predicting that not only would Rodrigo regress, but regress to the point that he'd have one of the highest ERA's in the majors?

A lot went wrong this season. I'm glad that the front office is admitting their mistakes. That's the first step that needs to be taken to ensuring that those mistakes aren't made again.

Check out this thread I started at the beginning of the season asking what our weaknesses were. Almost everyone said power hitting and bullpen. Are we really smart here on the OH or is the front office just that clueless?

http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32476

[TonySoprano]

That part gives me very little hope that this group of retreads can be trusted to know anything. Most of us here were more realistic apparently than our "baseball people" in the front office.

vice president Jim Duquette concedes that the front office overestimated what it had coming into the season.

He made a similiar comment last month about the rotation.

The organization is more concerned with upgrading the team's athleticism, talent level and depth. Club officials were optimistic before the season that if the club stayed healthy, it could compete. However, the pitching staff, thought to be the backbone of the team, has faltered under new pitching coach Leo Mazzone, leaving Duquette to admit that the organization may have over-evaluated what it had.

"I don't think we've underachieved," Duquette said. "There's been some disappointments. Our rotation has not been as strong as we thought it was going to be. Maybe there was some over-evaluation and maybe a little bit of under-performance. Injuries certainly played a part, but everybody had injuries and you can't place the blame there."

Source - Baltimore Sun, July 12

By their own admission, they may have overestimated what they had in the rotation and the bullpen. This may give us an indication why they have been reluctant to trade what they have in exchange for a needed bat. It could be that either that their asking price is too high, or that they may be gun shy about rolling the dice, because of their track record in evaluating what they have and don't want to make a mistake.

[Moose Milligan]

He made a similiar comment last month about the rotation.

Source - Baltimore Sun, July 12

By their own admission, they may have overestimated what they had in the rotation and the bullpen. This may give us an indication why they have been reluctant to trade what they have in exchange for a needed bat. It could be that either that their asking price is too high, or that they may be gun shy about rolling the dice, because of their track record in evaluating what they have and don't want to make a mistake.

Well if thats the case, get some other people to evaluate.

I don't know how a ML FO office works (or in our case doesn't work) but I'd imagine it goes something like this...anyone with true knowledge of the subject please feel free to correct me....

Flanagan and Duq sit in the warehouse on their thumbs taking and making calls while the scouts are out doing their jobs, bringing back scouting reports and evaluating the talent. Flanagan and Duq only come out of the warehouse (if at all) and evaluate talent when they think they're close to making a deal. In summary, I'm giving Flanagan and Duq the benefit of the doubt here because Flanny won a Cy Young and WS with us and they seem to be nice guys. That, and they have to put up with the miserable old fartknocker Angelos.

So...if they think the scouts are doing a bad job and giving them bogus intel, FIRE THEM! Get new ones! Call Jim Russo out of retirement.

I know baseballs probably the hardest game to scout. But if we're so gun shy because of the talent evaluating then get some different evaluaters in here. BUILD THIS TEAM!

Oh wait...that'd require spending a little more money...sorry...