SUN: O's search for relief

[Sapper]

Well if thats the case, get some other people to evaluate.

I don't know how a ML FO office works (or in our case doesn't work) but I'd imagine it goes something like this...anyone with true knowledge of the subject please feel free to correct me....

Flanagan and Duq sit in the warehouse on their thumbs taking and making calls while the scouts are out doing their jobs, bringing back scouting reports and evaluating the talent. Flanagan and Duq only come out of the warehouse (if at all) and evaluate talent when they think they're close to making a deal. In summary, I'm giving Flanagan and Duq the benefit of the doubt here because Flanny won a Cy Young and WS with us and they seem to be nice guys. That, and they have to put up with the miserable old fartknocker Angelos.

So...if they think the scouts are doing a bad job and giving them bogus intel, FIRE THEM! Get new ones! Call Jim Russo out of retirement.

I know baseballs probably the hardest game to scout. But if we're so gun shy because of the talent evaluating then get some different evaluaters in here. BUILD THIS TEAM!

Oh wait...that'd require spending a little more money...sorry...

Nah, just put "Baltimore" on the road jerseys and everything will be fine.

/end sarcasm

[Moose Milligan]

Nah, just put "Baltimore" on the road jerseys and everything will be fine.

/end sarcasm

Ohhh man, that was good. I got a good laugh out of that.

I bet people weren't *****ing for Baltimore on the road jerseys when we were busy winning the WS in 1983!

[33rdst]

The front office people weren't the only ones to get it wrong. Many on this board were touting guys like Rleal, Rodriguez and even Dubose. The bullpen is a crap shoot. All of us thought Kline was a good signing when it happened.

Just looking around the league it appears like the teams with the most successfull bullpens are those that have a good mix of veterans with one or two young guys. I still say your bullpen is only as good as your starting pitching. Look at Boston.

[JTrea81]

I don't see what everybody is upset about. This is a filler article and nothing more. The bullpen has been horrible lately and could use an upgrade. They only want Hawkins back at a reduced price. Hoey is still in the picture. Perlozzo gave some great comments about Britton. Nowhere in that article does it say the bullpen is the first priority, just that it needs to be fixed - which I can agree with. Heck all 30 teams are looking to do the same thing.

[Mackus]

The front office people weren't the only ones to get it wrong. Many on this board were touting guys like Rleal, Rodriguez and even Dubose. The bullpen is a crap shoot. All of us thought Kline was a good signing when it happened.

Just looking around the league it appears like the teams with the most successfull bullpens are those that have a good mix of veterans with one or two young guys. I still say your bullpen is only as good as your starting pitching. Look at Boston.

Very good point.

[wildcard]

The O's have a bunch of righthander that may progress or have good years.

Ray, Britton, Hoey, Rleal, Hale, Manon, Abreu, and maybe they re-sign Hawkins.

But they have very little on the lefthanded side - Birkins, Burres, and Byrdak. They need to add a strong lefty.

[DrungoHazewood]

I was at least a little encouraged by the article. They said they recognize a weakness, they don't want to just go out and throw money at the problem, and they'll look at several different avenues to fix it.

The discouraging thing was the dispair evident in this sentence fragment: "Eddy Rodriguez proved once again he's ineffective above Triple-A, and Perlozzo was left to sift through unproven commodities such as Rleal, Britton, Birkins, Winston Abreu and Julio Manon" Eddy Rodriguez was given 15 innings to prove himself - they might as well have not called him up at all. These "unproven commodities"like Britton, Birkins, Abreu, and Manon all showed signs of being capable relievers, certainly more signs than most of the $2M, $3M, $4M veterans that get hauled in every year.

I have no problem trading for or signing a middle reliever on the cheap, but most relievers come out of nowhere. There was an article on BP the other day that showed closers with no experience closing were every bit as successful as "proven" closers.

Part of the reason they've used 17 relievers this year is that Manon, Abreu, and Rodriguez were sent away before they had a chance to show anything, and carcasses like Byrdak and Ortiz were brought in because of their so-called track records.

The Orioles need to look at the Manons and Abreus and Eddy Rodriguezes as possible solutions to the problem, not as suspects. Pick up some more guys like that in the offseason, maybe a guy like Valverde or Rauch. They have a great pitching coach, and a whole lot of scouts and others coaches with decades of experience - tell them to evaluate what they have without regard to name or track record or age, pick the best ones, realize even good relievers will have rough spots, and trust them for longer than a week at a time.

[rolliefingers]

The discouraging thing was the dispair evident in this sentence fragment: "Eddy Rodriguez proved once again he's ineffective above Triple-A, and Perlozzo was left to sift through unproven commodities such as Rleal, Britton, Birkins, Winston Abreu and Julio Manon" Eddy Rodriguez was given 15 innings to prove himself - they might as well have not called him up at all. These "unproven commodities"like Britton, Birkins, Abreu, and Manon all showed signs of being capable relievers, certainly more signs than most of the $2M, $3M, $4M veterans that get hauled in every year.

Beat me to it. Nevermind that all those guys have been better than our "wily vets" this year.

[bigbird]

I think the front office put too much stock into Mazzone's track record of turning journeymen into something special (Hammond and Sosa for exmaple).

That being said there is still no way you can throw 6 career minor leaguers out there every night and hope to shut down the likes of teams in the AL. They flounder and you're forced to start a merry go round in hopes of finding a hot hand. We need 2 shut down bullpen arms for the back of the pen. Add Ray, a long reliever/spot starter, Britton and then the best 2 arms from the group we've been seeing this season and that should be a solid pen for 2007.

[Sports Guy]

I think the front office put too much stock into Mazzone's track record of turning journeymen into something special (Hammond and Sosa for exmaple).

That being said there is still no way you can throw 6 career minor leaguers out there every night and hope to shut down the likes of teams in the AL. They flounder and you're forced to start a merry go round in hopes of finding a hot hand. We need 2 shut down bullpen arms for the back of the pen. Add Ray, a long reliever/spot starter, Britton and then the best 2 arms from the group we've been seeing this season and that should be a solid pen for 2007.

But they are going after the wrong types of guys. They want to bring back Hawkins? Are you serious?

They need POWER ARMS!!! When are they going to figure this out?

It sounds to me that they will sign more of the same guys that they have signed the last few years.

They want guys who have "done it before"....Nevermind that doing it before was 5-10 years ago. At least they did it! Give me a break.

And btw, this has NOTHING to do with PA. This is the FO. Piss poor!!!!!

[AgentOrange]

But they are going after the wrong types of guys. They want to bring back Hawkins? Are you serious?

They need POWER ARMS!!! When are they going to figure this out?

It sounds to me that they will sign more of the same guys that they have signed the last few years.

They want guys who have "done it before"....Nevermind that doing it before was 5-10 years ago. At least they did it! Give me a break.

And btw, this has NOTHING to do with PA. This is the FO. Piss poor!!!!!

Hawkins is not a power arm? Doesn't he throw mid 90's? ::: runs and hides :::

[Sports Guy]

Hawkins is not a power arm? Doesn't he throw mid 90's? ::: runs and hides :::

He strikes out less than 4 per 9 IP...That is awful. That is what i meant by power arm..Guys you strike people out.

[Sports Guy]

Heavens forbid the Orioles do the "difficult thing" and make a trade. It is much easier to just sign crap off of the scrapheap...Same easy way out as always.

[AgentOrange]

Bottom line. Look at his strikeout numbers.

BTW, Hawkins may have given us some insight that Sammy mishandled Birkins, possible being the cause of his sore arm.

"

I gotcha, I was confused. I think we do need some power arms in the BP, they can get you out of jams like no other. I think we have 2 if Hoey pans out. We would need a match up lefty and 2 more, and I think we would have a pretty solid pen.

[NewMarketSean]

You'd think that after XX amount of years of having veteran relievers sucking, the O's would simply save their money and go with the guys from the minors, since there seems to be a lot of them down there who would be able to do as good/bad as the veteran relievers do.

But that is not the Oriole Way. The Oriole Way is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

This organization may get better by default, but we're never going to make the playoffs under the current ownership and management