Markakis Max Return

[waroriole]

We've waited two seasons and this season just confirms that Markakis is not a premium player. I'm not saying Fielder is an annual 6.0 rWAR player as even Rafael Palmerio was not an annual 6.0 rWAR player. However he has a 6.0 rWAR season and more left in him while Markakis has likely peaked.

That's a nice arbitrary distinction. "premium Player." How is that defined?

Furthermore, there is a huge range between premium player and waiver wire player.

[ledzepp8]

If you want to use rWAR that's fine but at least indicate it as such.

Better yet let's do a full comparison:

Prince Fielder (rWAR)

2006: -0.5

2007: 3.8

2008: 2.1

2009: 6.4

2010: 2.7

2011: 3.3

Nick Markakis (rWAR):

2006: 1.7

2007: 3.3

2008: 5.5

2009: 2.7

2010: 2.8

2011: -0.1

So Fielder is on pace for his second 6.0+ rWAR season while Markakis has never had one and looks to finish below 3.0 rWAR for the third year in a row.

Fielder has never had three consecutive sub 3.0 rWAR seasons.

All of this and still Nick Markakis has been worth more WAR than Fielder in three different seasons. Nick Markakis has been worth more WAR, coming into this season, than Fielder. Twist and distort all you want, you're silence acknowledges this.

[JTrea81]

Do you not see that you're proving our point? You want to pay someone 200 million dollars, who has been worth less WAR (coming to into this season) than Nick Markakis, a guy who "is not a premium player".

Fielder's issues having been fielding, not hitting. Hitting is a weak point on this team right now.

Fielders oWAR has been 21.6 with including a season of 6.7. Markakis' oWAR has been 16.1 with one season at 4.8.

Fielder is on pace for another 6.0 oWAR season this year.

Also I've said I'd be willing to go 7/175 not $200 million.

[El Gordo]

It would be interesting to do a poll: who will be worth more over the next 5 seasons, Markakis or Fielder?

[JTrea81]

BTW for those who are sick of another Fielder thread, I wasn't the one who brought him up. Just thought I'd put that out there.

I'm talking purely that the $ we'd save from Markakis could be used elsewhere. Fielder is just one of many that money could go toward.

Somebody like Yu Darvish could be another option.

If we are a team on a limited budget, you've got to wonder if allocating $44 million dollars over the next 3 years is worth it for what we are going to get from Markakis vs. what we could put that money towards to build a playoff team.

[ledzepp8]

Fielder's issues having been fielding, not hitting. Hitting is a weak point on this team right now.

Fielders oWAR has been 21.6. Markakis' oWAR has been 16.1

Oh okay so you're paying him 200 million dollars to DH? You're the king of spin man. You're the one with the hard on for WAR and now you distort it when it doesn't fit your agenda.

Regardless I'll play along, according to oWar, Fielder's only be slightly more valuable than Markakis. Of course coming into this season, that margin was even smaller. Once again, you want to make someone, that is only slightly more valuable than someone you deem "not a premium player", one of the highest paid players in the game.

You can't make this stuff up.

[waroriole]

You can't make this stuff up.

Apparently, you can b/c he does it daily.

[Crazysilver03]

Fielder's issues having been fielding, not hitting. Hitting is a weak point on this team right now.

Fielders oWAR has been 21.6 with including a season of 6.7. Markakis' oWAR has been 16.1 with one season at 4.8.

Fielder is on pace for another 6.0 oWAR season this year.

Also I've said I'd be willing to go 7/175 not $200 million.

BTW for those who are sick of another Fielder thread, I wasn't the one who brought him up. Just thought I'd put that out there.

I'm talking purely that the $ we'd save from Markakis could be used elsewhere. Fielder is just one of many that money could go toward.

Somebody like Yu Darvish could be another option.

If we are a team on a limited budget, you've got to wonder if allocating $44 million dollars over the next 3 years is worth it for what we are going to get from Markakis vs. what we could put that money towards to build a playoff team.

If we are a team on a limited budget, whose need is hitting, why would Darvish be a good option?

[ledzepp8]

Also I've said I'd be willing to go 7/175 not $200 million.

I stand corrected, although that's not giant diference in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you'll change your tune right about the time AM offers him 7/170 and he then signs with some other team for 8/210...at which you start another crusade about AM not offering enough.

[JTrea81]

I stand corrected, although that's not giant diference in the grand scheme of things. Especially when you'll change your tune right about the time AM offers him 7/170 and he then signs with some other team for 8/210...at which you start another crusade about AM not offering enough.

What does this have to do with Nick Markakis?

[waroriole]

What does this have to do with Nick Markakis?

Looks like he's responding to a post that you made, which shockingly was about a $20M+ a year 1B.

[ledzepp8]

What does this have to do with Nick Markakis?

Ha...you're good man. You may not have mentioned him first, but you know exactly why he was brought up. You made outlandish and at times false statements about Markakis. You've hammered it into the board's head how much you want Fielder. You claim that Markakis is overpaid and should e waived and you were then shown that he has been worth more than Fielder coming into the season.

You get owned in the thread and now you want to backtrack and act like you weren't talking about Fielder.

[JTrea81]

Ha...you're good man. You may not have mentioned him first, but you know exactly why he was brought up. You made outlandish and at times false statements about Markakis. You've hammered it into the board's head how much you want Fielder. You claim that Markakis is overpaid and should e waived and you were then shown that he has been worth more than Fielder coming into the season.

You get owned in the thread and now you want to backtrack and act like you weren't talking about Fielder.

False statements about Markakis? Look at his stats. Look at the performance. Show me where I was wrong about him.

Fielder has been mentioned more times by everybody else.

And I know why he was brought up, because people feel a need to "win" an argument. The only people who got owned in this thread are those that decided to turn it into another Fielder thread after they've complained about him being brought up constantly.

I'm talking purely about the allocation of payroll, something this team has done a lousy job of.

[Crazysilver03]

I'm talking purely about the allocation of payroll, something this team has done a lousy job of.

While I would prefer to get something in return for Markakis, I wouldn't be completely against letting him go on waivers if the opportunity presented itself. It would be nice to ditch Gregg and Gonzalez but I am sure they will pass through waivers.

With the uncertainty about Robert's situation, we need to free up payroll. While Markakis is a great player, he most likely won't be worth what his contract extension is worth. He has regressed several straight years now. I'd rather have that money for other situations.

[My O's Face]

While I would prefer to get something in return for Markakis, I wouldn't be completely against letting him go on waivers if the opportunity presented itself. It would be nice to ditch Gregg and Gonzalez but I am sure they will pass through waivers.

With the uncertainty about Robert's situation, we need to free up payroll. While Markakis is a great player, he most likely won't be worth what his contract extension is worth. He has regressed several straight years now. I'd rather have that money for other situations.

I couldn't agree more.