So, I guess Buck's honeymoon is over?

[Frobby]

As I read the OH day by day, it is pretty clear to me that Buck's honeymoon is over. It's interesting, because before he was hired, I was in the camp that the manager cannot make much of a difference if the talent isn't there. Then Buck swept in, the team went 34-23, they started off this year 6-1 and it seemed like the guy could do no wrong. He cleaned house on the coaching staff, which many posters had advocated as part of "changing the culture." Our starting lineup features 4 regulars who weren't here last year (Lee, Guerrero, Hardy and Reynolds).

And yet, now I'm reading how Buck hasn't changed the culture, how he coddles veteran players, how he mismanages the bullpen, how he calls out the wrong guys at the wrong time, how he hasn't reduced the mental mistakes the team makes. Basically, it is the same set of complaints I have read about every single manager we have had since we started losing.

Personally, I think it is 90% bullhockey. My original instinct was correct: there is only so much a manager can do. There is nothing wrong with the clubhouse, or the strategy, or the bench usage, or the bullpen usage, or the team's attitude. To me, the difference between "Buck's Birds" that went 34-23 and the team we are seeing now is extremely simple: we aren't getting consistently good starting pitching now like we did for the final two months last year. When the starting pitching is good, the team is in every game, the games move faster, players are more on their toes, there is less pressure on the bullpen, and everything else follows. That is what it is all about, and Buck can only do so much about it.

We'll never know, but I think letting Kranitz go may have been Buck's biggest mistake since taking over as manager. We had a good thing going at the end of last year, and I'm not sure I would have fooled with it. But that's easy to say now. It was never clear whether the pitching got good just as Buck arrived because of stuff Kranitz was doing that finally kicked in just at the right time, or whether Buck created a big change in approach, or whether it was just pure coincidence. But it sure made Buck look like a genius, and the reason he doesn't look like a genius right now is because the starting pitchers aren't doing a good job.

[Sports Guy]

I think Buck is a worse manager this year than he was last year...Not because we are losing but because it seemed to me that he did things differently than he is doing now.

[alaniee]

I'm very disappointed in Buck this year so far. He's made so many decisions that have been baffling. He's just not that good of a coach as we thought we were getting. Hopefully he starts to make better decisions and the team will improve.

[alaniee]

I think Buck is a worse manager this year than he was last year...Not because we are losing but because it seemed to me that he did things differently than he is doing now.

I agree.

[flashjordnk]

And yet, now I'm reading how Buck hasn't changed the culture, how he coddles veteran players, how he mismanages the bullpen...

Last year Buck came in and actively said...everyone is fighting for a job. No one is being given anything. This year he's done the opposite of that. Do you not think that's the case?

Vets like Lee/Vlad have been given their lineup spot and not moved at all? You really think that's what's best for the team? Are we really to the point where we're worried about a Posada like response from these guys about hitting 7th or 8th?

Do you think Buck has managed this bullpen well? You think Gregg should be closer? Buck let Koji earn that job last year, he's done nothing to show he doesn't deserve it this year, they made that bull hockey commercial about how he doesn't care about saves. And look where we are with that...

You think Davis should be getting his 2b reps in the MLB? Are you as enamored with Andino as Buck is?

There was no honey moon for Buck. If he would have done things like this last year, I think a lot of smart posters would have reacted the same way. I'm willing to give him a pass on SP especially with Matusz being hurt thus far. But I just don't get what he's trying to accomplish with this team right now. Last year there was a clear message. Shape up or ship out. This year the message is shape up...or I'll keep doing the same thing every day because you're veterans now with long term track records. This team just feels dead right now...and the manager needs to break up all this darn lolliggaging or he's going to take the heat.

[NewMarketSean]

Last year Buck came in and actively said...everyone is fighting for a job. No one is being given anything. This year he's done the opposite of that. Do you not think that's the case?

Vets like Lee/Vlad have been given their lineup spot and not moved at all? You really think that's what's best for the team? Are we really to the point where we're worried about a Posada like response from these guys about hitting 7th or 8th?

Do you think Buck has managed this bullpen well? You think Gregg should be closer? Buck let Koji earn that job last year, he's done nothing to show he doesn't deserve it this year, they made that bull hockey commercial about how he doesn't care about saves. And look where we are with that...

You think Davis should be getting his 2b reps in the MLB? Are you as enamored with Andino as Buck is?

There was no honey moon for Buck. If he would have done things like this last year, I think a lot of smart posters would have reacted the same way. I'm willing to give him a pass on SP especially with Matusz being hurt thus far. But I just don't get what he's trying to accomplish with this team right now. Last year there was a clear message. Shape up or ship out. This year the message is shape up...or I'll keep doing the same thing every day because you're veterans now with long term track records. This team just feels dead right now...and the manager needs to break up all this darn lolliggaging or he's going to take the heat.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

[Nolanseye14]

Last year Buck came in and actively said...everyone is fighting for a job. No one is being given anything. This year he's done the opposite of that. Do you not think that's the case?

Vets like Lee/Vlad have been given their lineup spot and not moved at all? You really think that's what's best for the team? Are we really to the point where we're worried about a Posada like response from these guys about hitting 7th or 8th?

Do you think Buck has managed this bullpen well? You think Gregg should be closer? Buck let Koji earn that job last year, he's done nothing to show he doesn't deserve it this year, they made that bull hockey commercial about how he doesn't care about saves. And look where we are with that...

You think Davis should be getting his 2b reps in the MLB? Are you as enamored with Andino as Buck is?

There was no honey moon for Buck. If he would have done things like this last year, I think a lot of smart posters would have reacted the same way. I'm willing to give him a pass on SP especially with Matusz being hurt thus far. But I just don't get what he's trying to accomplish with this team right now. Last year there was a clear message. Shape up or ship out. This year the message is shape up...or I'll keep doing the same thing every day because you're veterans now with long term track records. This team just feels dead right now...and the manager needs to break up all this darn lolliggaging or he's going to take the heat.

:agree:

[Pedro Cerrano]

Guys, we have no idea how many of Buck's moves are from the Front Office. There is a very good chance AM has said "We are trying to trade the vets, so they need to play every day. Start them."

[Frobby]

Last year Buck came in and actively said...everyone is fighting for a job. No one is being given anything. This year he's done the opposite of that. Do you not think that's the case?

Vets like Lee/Vlad have been given their lineup spot and not moved at all? You really think that's what's best for the team? Are we really to the point where we're worried about a Posada like response from these guys about hitting 7th or 8th?

Do you think Buck has managed this bullpen well? You think Gregg should be closer? Buck let Koji earn that job last year, he's done nothing to show he doesn't deserve it this year, they made that bull hockey commercial about how he doesn't care about saves. And look where we are with that...

You think Davis should be getting his 2b reps in the MLB? Are you as enamored with Andino as Buck is?

There was no honey moon for Buck. If he would have done things like this last year, I think a lot of smart posters would have reacted the same way. I'm willing to give him a pass on SP especially with Matusz being hurt thus far. But I just don't get what he's trying to accomplish with this team right now. Last year there was a clear message. Shape up or ship out. This year the message is shape up...or I'll keep doing the same thing every day because you're veterans now with long term track records. This team just feels dead right now...and the manager needs to break up all this darn lolliggaging or he's going to take the heat.

I disagree with almost everything you say. I think the cumulative effect of all the issues you identify here on the W-L record are negligible. I think, in 9 years on the Hangout, I have observed that all managers are more patient with veteran players, and slower to either cut their playing time or change their role, than many posters are. I have zero problem with Buck sticking with his original lineup, for the most part, to this point in the season. (He did move Lee down in the order a few spots and moved Jones and Wieters up.) I'd prefer Koji over Gregg as the closer, but think that issue is highly overrated since they both pitch an inning (in Koji's case, sometimes 2) in just about every close game we are winning and it really doesn't matter whether a run is yielded in the 8th vs. the 9th, or vice-versa. I don't think Buck has any good options at 2B, and that's not his fault; he was fortunate last year that BRob returned just a few days before he started as the manager, and he'd be looking better now if BRob were playing.

Like I said, it's all about the starting pitching. The team is scoring just as many runs now as it did during Buck's tenure last year, maybe even a few more relative to the rest of the league. But the starting pitching hasn't been there -- the starters' ERA is about a run higher, and they are pitching substantially fewer innings compared to what they were doing last August/September. When the starting pitching is good, managers look good.

[El Gordo]

I think Buck is a worse manager this year than he was last year...Not because we are losing but because it seemed to me that he did things differently than he is doing now.

Like what?

[MikeAD]

Team sucks, Moses couldn't lead them to a victory.

[El Gordo]

I'm very disappointed in Buck this year so far. He's made so many decisions that have been baffling. He's just not that good of a coach as we thought we were getting. Hopefully he starts to make better decisions and the team will improve.

Like what

[Pedro Cerrano]

Like what

The one most will point to is his steadfast refusal to move some of the stuggling guys down or out of the order (or when he did it was later than most would have liked).

[El Gordo]

I disagree with almost everything you say. I think the cumulative effect of all the issues you identify here on the W-L record are negligible. I think, in 9 years on the Hangout, I have observed that all managers are more patient with veteran players, and slower to either cut their playing time or change their role, than many posters are. I have zero problem with Buck sticking with his original lineup, for the most part, to this point in the season. (He did move Lee down in the order a few spots and moved Jones and Wieters up.) I'd prefer Koji over Gregg as the closer, but think that issue is highly overrated since they both pitch an inning (in Koji's case, sometimes 2) in just about every close game we are winning and it really doesn't matter whether a run is yielded in the 8th vs. the 9th, or vice-versa. I don't think Buck has any good options at 2B, and that's not his fault; he was fortunate last year that BRob returned just a few days before he started as the manager, and he'd be looking better now if BRob were playing.

Like I said, it's all about the starting pitching. The team is scoring just as many runs now as it did during Buck's tenure last year, maybe even a few more relative to the rest of the league. But the starting pitching hasn't been there -- the starters' ERA is about a run higher, and they are pitching substantially fewer innings compared to what they were doing last August/September. When the starting pitching is good, managers look good.

I agree with just about everything here. I would say I believe replacing Krannitz and Crowley might have been counterproductive. The players had a good rapport with both, and it may have taken time for them to adjust to Conner and Presley, and in the case of Conner it may not have happened. And I wonder if Nick's slump would have been so protracted if Crow were here from the get go.

[DuffMan]

the bench usage,

I feel like he's done a terrible job of using his bench between not finding a few more AB's for Fox early in the year, to the disapperance of Reimold, to putting a guy like Davis at 2B just to name a few. I also feel like he's been using Wieters as the catcher too much and I'm worried he could wear down come August.