Are there people on OH you feel could do a better job than AM or other members of the O's brass?

[OFFNY]

Monday Morning QB's.

[TakebackOPACY]

DJ demanded an extension on that day or else he was going to pull a Riggleman with one year left on his deal. That's why Angelos accepted his resignation, because he wasn't willing to play out the last year of his deal. Davey overplayed his hand and Angelos called him on it.

Stop making stuff up out of thin air or provide a link!

Chronology of Johnson/Angelos Feud according to The Washington Post

Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, how would that be "pulling a Riggleman"? Johnson had been to two straight ALCS appearances and had just lead the O's to a 98 win wire-to-wire season and the ALCS. This was after the season. Gillick made it known he wanted Johnson back.

Riggleman left abruptly in the middle of the season because of a lack of commitment from his GM.

I encourage you to read some of the articles linked here about "The Johnson-Angelos Saga".

[JTrea81]

Stop making stuff up out of thin air or provide a link!

Chronology of Johnson/Angelos Feud according to The Washington Post

Even if what you said was true, which it isn't, how would that be "pulling a Riggleman"? Johnson had been to two straight ALCS appearances and had just lead the O's to a 98 win wire-to-wire season and the ALCS. This was after the season. Gillick made it known he wanted Johnson. Riggleman left abruptly in the middle of the season because of a lack of commitment from his GM.

I encourage you to read some of the articles linked here about "The Johnson-Angelos Saga".

The link is John Eisenberg's From 33rd St to Camden Yards. Read pages 474-475.

Angelos wanted to bring DJ back for the last year according to himself and Joe Foss because it would be best for the club, but DJ was trying to get a three year extension. Angelos didn't like the tatics of him threatening to resign to get that extension so he accepted his resignation. PGA admitted he wasn't thinking of the ballclub at the time but he wasn't about to be bullied by an employee.

[TakebackOPACY]

Davey Johnson's letter of Resignation and Angelos' reply.

[JTrea81]

Davey Johnson's letter of Resignation and Angelos' reply.

The fax for the three year extension or resignation by 3 PM ultimatum supposedly came from Davey's agent.

The thing that according to Angelos that ticked him off the most was that Davey kept saying he was going to be fired and then when Angelos actually made the decision to bring him back, he threatened to resign unless given an extension.

[TakebackOPACY]

Angelos Can't Get No Satisfaction... Davey Johnson Resignation

November 06, 1997|By John Eisenberg

Johnson's replacement's replacement is probably a 50-50 shot to survive the end of the millennium.

Don't laugh.

If there is a lesson to learn from Johnson's resignation, it's that Angelos will never be satisfied with a manager.

Johnson was the one who pulled the plug on their relationship yesterday, but only after Angelos treated him with the respect and support a losing rookie manager might expect.

The record will show that Johnson quit, but only after Angelos griped about his personality, his tactics, his handling of the clubhouse -- everything except his golf swing, or so it seems.

This change proves, beyond any doubt, that all Orioles managers should be issued a flak jacket when they take the job.

If Angelos didn't like Johnson, the winningest active manager in the major leagues, who is he going to like?

If he wanted to get rid of Johnson, who never failed to take the Orioles to the American League Championship Series after the franchise had gone a dozen years without making the playoffs, who is going to satisfy him?

He probably would have fired Earl Weaver after the Orioles' third-place finish in 1972.

Never mind those three AL pennants Earl won from 1969-71.

When defeat comes, as it often does in baseball, Angelos reacts with all the insight of a second-guessing talk-show caller.

Ray Miller? He's a superb pitching coach who went 109-130 managing the Twins in the '80s. (Angelos probably would favor him because he was an owner-mandated hire last year, so Angelos thinks he "created" Miller, who has been a major-league pitching coach for 18 years.)

Free agents make decisions based on money, but some might wonder about coming to a franchise in which 98 wins buys a

manager no support.

L This isn't going to help lure talent, let's put it that way.

And the front office? Well, you can be sure that neither Pat Gillick nor Kevin Malone thought a managerial change was necessary, so, well, who knows? (Malone's contract is up, by the way.)

Anyone who knows anything about baseball knew a managerial change wasn't necessary after a 98-win season.

maybe Angelos should hire himself.

Then maybe he'd figure out that managing a baseball team is a tough job, and that no one did it better than Davey Johnson.

[TakebackOPACY]

Rolling Seas Won't Mean Ship Will Sink

October 31, 1997 John Eisenberg

This one, you'll like JTrea. And I promise my next post will bring a bit of validity to what you're saying about Davey's contract demands.

Leaks are springing all over the bow of the Orioles' ship, with the futures of Davey Johnson, Pat Gillick, Brady Anderson and Randy Myers in limbo.

Peter Angelos will stuff the leaks with wads of cash -- the cash that comes from sellouts at Camden Yards and goes to top-dollar free agents.

And as ridiculous as the Orioles have become in some ways, with so much dirty laundry always being aired in public, they'll always have enough money to field an interesting team, at the very least.

[TakebackOPACY]

Angelos Has Upper Hand on Dotted Line

October 29, 1997 John Eisenberg

Davey Johnson is trying to back Peter Angelos into a corner by asking for an extension or a buyout of his contract to manage the Orioles, but there's one small problem with his demands.

Two problems, actually.

One is yesterday's news that Johnson had demanded in July that second baseman Roberto Alomar donate fine money to a charity managed by Johnson's wife, Susan.

The second was that Angelos had the upper hand because Johnson was under contract for another year.

Of course, Angelos isn't particularly happy about having the upper hand because he would rather have Jim Leyland, Felipe Alou or just about anyone other than Johnson managing the club in '98.

That's the hilarious irony of the situation: Angelos can force Johnson to manage the Orioles next year, but he would rather not.

What Angelos really wants is for Johnson to quit.

What Johnson really wants is the respect, credit and raise he feels is warranted by his performance in managing the Orioles to the American League Championship Series in each of his first two years on the job.

Ain't gonna happen.

Angelos thinks he can lure another big name as a replacement, but it's debatable whether any top manager would want to come here and work under such conditions.

If you're having trouble figuring it all out, here are the possible endings:

Johnson gets the extension he wants. (Fat chance.)

Johnson gets the buyout he wants. (Could happen if Angelos tires of the public squabble and decides he's better off getting rid of the "problem.")

Angelos gives in to neither of Johnson's demands, but Johnson swallows his pride and decides to fulfill the terms of his contract and manage the Orioles in '98. (Could happen, although it is difficult to imagine Johnson swallowing his pride.)

Johnson walks away without getting a buyout. (Could happen if Johnson decides he has had enough, and sees another job he wants.)

Johnson gets fired. (Could happen after yesterday's charity story.)

[TakebackOPACY]

The link is John Eisenberg's From 33rd St to Camden Yards. Read pages 474-475.

Angelos wanted to bring DJ back for the last year according to himself and Joe Foss because it would be best for the club, but DJ was trying to get a three year extension. Angelos didn't like the tatics of him threatening to resign to get that extension so he accepted his resignation. PGA admitted he wasn't thinking of the ballclub at the time but he wasn't about to be bullied by an employee.

Found it. Sorry to others for derailing the thread. I haven't posted the quotes from Foss and Angelos because there's no cut-n-paste available and I'm too tired to type it all. What JTrea says is in there, is in there. Very different perspectives from Brady, Davey, Palmer, and Gillick are also in there.

If we choose to believe Angelos and Foss, there's still very little comparison to Riggleman's recent resignation for all the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. I have to tend to believe that there is some truth to Angelos' and Foss' account, but that it is unconsciously twisted in their minds to help them feel 'in the right'. Why would an ultimatum come out of the blue? (I can believe an ultimatum came. But I have a hard time believing it was really an ultimatum; or that Angelos would have taken it as an ultimatum except that it gave him an out.) When a Manager has gone to two ALCS's in a row and is one year out of an expiring contract, it's no secret that they would be talking extension. Angelos said all Davey had to do was ask. Well, he asked. It doesn't add up. I believe that this is the way Angelos saw it. But I also believe that most people (including Davey; Gillick; the players; the press; etc.) would see the same things very differently.