Johnson is untouchable? O's refused to talk trade with several teams

[LookitsPuck]

Wow, we should at the very least be LISTENING to any offers for ANYONE.

[Frobby]

"Sometimes you make a mistake because you've lost X number of games and your record is whatever it is that everything there is bad," manager Buck Showalter said of an Orioles club mired in a seven-game losing streak to start the second half.

"I think that's a mistake. And that's one thing I said when I came in here, the environment and the culture, there's things you want to hold yourself to and there's things that I think have drastically improved. It may not be apparent on a stats sheet, but there's some things where I go, 'OK, yeah, this guy gets it. This guy is a keeper, you can see him jumping on a pile in the seventh game of the World Series'.

"I try to dwell on the positives. It's tough. I have some private moments where I close the door [in my office] and go, 'Wow. Really?' But the more I'm here, the more I understand some of the challenges we've had."

Interesting words from Buck.

[Frobby]

MacPhail overvaluing relief pitching as usual.

He traded Bradford. He traded Sherrill. He traded Hernandez. He traded Mickolio. He traded Hoey. He traded Jacobsen.

I think Andy has demonstrated a willingness to trade relievers.

[LookitsPuck]

He traded Bradford. He traded Sherrill. He traded Hernandez. He traded Mickolio. He traded Hoey. He traded Jacobsen.

I think Andy has demonstrated a willingness to trade relievers.

I was about to say, JTRea is way off base about this.

I think the only defense of this is that they think JJ can be a starter, but even still..why not listen to your offers?

[DrungoHazewood]

Why do you move a guy like Johnson out of a position where he is one of the better pitchers in the league in order to have him start next year?

I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to move Johnson to the rotation, but one of the reasons is that I don't believe he's one of the better relievers (or even setup relievers) in the league. As a reliever he's only averaging 6 K/9. That'll fall, probably significantly, as a starter. He's going to be close to the limit of effectiveness if he's trying to win striking out 4 or 5 men per nine.

Interesting words from Buck.

Just vauge and curious enough to make me wonder what's going on. It almost gives me hope, but I'm very slowly learning to not read positive things into vague and curious words from Orioles.

[Scrat1]

Interesting words from Buck.

We may not actually win ball games, but at least we'll have that winning culture!

[flashjordnk]

Interesting words from Buck.

This quote is really interesting. Does Buck think this team is closer to competing or is better? Maybe Buck still believes in the Calvary (it is why he came here). If he believes in his own ability to judge talent and really does think that Britton/Matusz can bounce back for a strong year combined next year. He might also see a lot of possibilities with a young roster next year without Vlad/Lee. But very interesting indeed.

He traded Bradford. He traded Sherrill. He traded Hernandez. He traded Mickolio. He traded Hoey. He traded Jacobsen.

I think Andy has demonstrated a willingness to trade relievers.

Hahaha. Bazinga. Though in Trea's defense. He did SIGN Bradford. And Gregg. And Gonzo. And Baez. And all for too much.

[DrungoHazewood]

Hahaha. Bazinga. Though in Trea's defense. He did SIGN Bradford. And Gregg. And Gonzo. And Baez. And all for too much.

Baez, Walker and Bradford were signed in the 2006-07 offseason. MacPhail wasn't hired until June of '07.

[flashjordnk]

Baez, Walker and Bradford were signed in the 2006-07 offseason. MacPhail wasn't hired until June of '07.

Oops. Well he did sign Gregg, lol. And Gonzo. And it was still too much. Maybe the Orioles overpaying for relievers, not just AM? But yeah...I'm clearly wrong here.

[Frobby]

Baez, Walker and Bradford were signed in the 2006-07 offseason. MacPhail wasn't hired until June of '07.

I would argue that it was the utter failure of the 2007 bullpen to produce, after spending all that money, that led to Flanagan and Perlozzo losing their jobs in June 2007. They had a run of blown saves that was mind-boggling.

[JTrea81]

He traded Bradford. He traded Sherrill. He traded Hernandez. He traded Mickolio. He traded Hoey. He traded Jacobsen.

I think Andy has demonstrated a willingness to trade relievers.

He traded Hernandez and then replaced him with Gregg. Hoey, Jacobsen and Mickolio were all spare parts and minor leaguers. JJ is viewed as a vital piece of our bullpen and MacPhail has stressed the bullpen as being extremely important, hence the Gregg and Gonzalez signings. Sherrill was dealt when it was clear that we were out of contention and it took two players to move him. For some reason this year the Orioles want to hang on and apparently think JJ is worth the risk and cost going forward.

However. Johnson should not be untouchable, especially not if you are going to likely devalue him by putting him back in the rotation if you keep him and the chances of him being injured are high after the overuse this season.

[JTrea81]

I would argue that it was the utter failure of the 2007 bullpen to produce, after spending all that money, that led to Flanagan and Perlozzo losing their jobs in June 2007. They had a run of blown saves that was mind-boggling.

But that was mainly Chris Ray and Baez.

Walker and Bradford actually performed decently in 2007. Flanagan was already gone when Walker self-destructed in 2008 after Perlozzo and Trembley abused him the year before. Bradford actually outperformed his contract in 2007, putting up a fWAR of 1.3.

Baez was only the real disaster of those signings as Walker probably would have been fine if he hadn't been abused as he was a LOOGY that they tried to make a fireman.

Aubrey Huff's failure was pretty poor. Not to mention the signings of Kevin Millar and regression of Ramon Hernandez, Miguel Tejada and Melvin Mora.

The offense or lack there of magnified the bullpen issues.

[ccbird]

I think if Hardy is extended, the handwriting is on the wall. We don't trade anyone at the deadline and move Vlad, DLee, and Gozo, Aug.31

I've thought it's been fairly obvious for awhile now that the O's were unlikely to move anyone before the July 31 deadline.

[MikeAD]

More proof that the organization views the mediocre (can we even call it mediocre) product of "now" over building a good organization set up for success. Get ready to see us pick up some pitchers, and hold on to our valuable trade chips, so that we can continue to lose 4 or 5 out of 7 games.

I won't even discuss making JJ a starter. This is beyond goofy at this point. Hes a reliever, he has failed as a starter, and VERY RECENTLY, he wasn't that good in relief. Relief pitcher, no matter how expensive or what the track record, can always be hit or miss. If you have one that is great RIGHT now, and valuable, you move him.

[Orioles0615]

Why don't they try Johnson as a starter this year then if they are not going to trade him. Is macphail this stupid? Come on. Also for some reason whenever I see johnson pitch he is always struggling. Trade Johnson trade Guthire get something worth something for once jeeze!.

On ESPN there is an article about what every team should do. It mentions that the orioles just have Tillman pitch in the big leagues to see what he has for once and for all. Maybe we should do that, hell why you are at it call up Troy Patton, he is 4-1 with a 1.91 era.