In the Long Run, Would We Be Better Off Dealing Jones?

[MrOrange82]

Yes we would be better off long term, short term and any other type of term there is :laughlol:

As RJNZ said he is a good not great player and we cant afford to pay good not great players 10+ million unless all of a sudden PA approves a 120 million dollar payroll.

Well, I guess it's a moot point then, no?

Run down the list: we don't pay great players "great" money. We hardly ever sign good players for "good"/"great" money. We often sign poor players for "good" money. Our minor league system blows. We don't draft well. And I've raised a fairly substantial challenge to "trader Andy's" reputation.

Backtracking for a second, I'm not sure how you could even argue we'd be better off in the short term, anyway. We'd be trading a very good starter, in all likelihood, for a package of players who aren't yet ready for the big leagues. That kinda has to hurt in the short term, no matter how you slice it.

Most of the above post doesn't make much sense.

[olehippi]

Trade Jones? No....definitely not!! He is blossoming into a certified super star. Sign him now for the next 5 years or so, don't trade him.

[MarylandAaron]

No way I trade him to Atlanta without getting Julio Teheran back.

There's no way the Braves would give up Teheran for Jones. The Braves have said that they wouldn't trade him for Beltran, much less AJ.

[BaysoxFan39]

I'm referring to a trade that nets two/three pitching prospects for Adam Jones... would that be the right call moving forward?

Some examples...

...to Atlanta for LHP Mike Minor, and RHP Randall Delgado.

...to the Tigers for RHP Jacob Turner and LHP Casey Crosby.

...to the Rangers for LHP Martin Perez and LHP Robbie Erlin.

These are just examples. However, would these sort of deals be better for the team than keeping Jones alone?

The last time I looked Jones along with Markakis seem to be the only two in the Os lineup capable of hitting with men on base or in pressure situations. We should at least get a hitter in return for Jones.

[BaysoxFan39]

I don't know anything about those MiLers.

That being said, I cannot for the life of me understand those who want to trade Jones. (1) the Orioles' scouting/development people have proven themselves, time and again, to be borderline inept, so the odds of netting the kind of return for Jones that the O's would need seem poor, IMO. (2) the mere fact that Jones is one of the few legitimate trade pieces the O's have doesn't mean that it "makes sense" (as some have argued) to move him. Fact is that the O's are thin throughout the organization. If they had built-in redundancies to account for the loss of Jones while augmenting the MiL system, that'd be one thing, but trading him without a ready replacement makes little sense to me.

It's been, and remains, my opinion that the Orioles have to spend their way out of their current predicament. That means spending more on FA and overhauling the player development system (i.e. replacing the people who're there now (who would also play roles in Jones' trade-return)...because evidently they're terrible).

The only way Jones should be traded anytime soon is if the O's choose to commit to another, multi-year rebuild (translation: Jones, Markakis, Britton, Matusz, Wieters should all be put in play for multi-prospect returns).

I tend to agree with the fact our developmental staff needs a complete overhaul.

[El Gordo]

I think a trade with the Braves in the off season, would be great if we could get two of their best young close to ML ready SP back, and sign Crisp.

[mcneck]

Well, I guess it's a moot point then, no?

Run down the list: we don't pay great players "great" money. We hardly ever sign good players for "good"/"great" money. We often sign poor players for "good" money. Our minor league system blows. We don't draft well. And I've raised a fairly substantial challenge to "trader Andy's" reputation.

Backtracking for a second, I'm not sure how you could even argue we'd be better off in the short term, anyway. We'd be trading a very good starter, in all likelihood, for a package of players who aren't yet ready for the big leagues. That kinda has to hurt in the short term, no matter how you slice it.

Most of the above post doesn't make much sense.

I for the life of me can't understand why people can not understand that 2-3 good prospects + 10 million to add to the ML roster does not put us in a better position when we are sitting in last place of the AL east with the 10 million dollar player on our roster. If none of the prospects pan out we are still in almost the same place if the money is used to add to the ML roster. We get free prospects which we desperately need if we have any chance at all and to top it off they are developed by other teams farm systems which gives them a better chance of succeeding. Remember we got Jones in a trade for another player that a lot of people didn't want to trade because he was one of our better players and wew traded him before he got expensive as well. It is pathetic that this organization cannot see what the Rays and Marlins of the world have been able to accomplish with half the payroll.

[MrOrange82]

I for the life of me can't understand why people can not understand that 2-3 good prospects + 10 million to add to the ML roster does not put us in a better position when we are sitting in last place of the AL east with the 10 million dollar player on our roster. If none of the prospects pan out we are still in almost the same place if the money is used to add to the ML roster. We get free prospects which we desperately need if we have any chance at all and to rop it off they are developed by other teams farm systems which gives them a better chance of succeeding. Remember we got Jones in a trade for another player that a lot of people didn't want to trade because he was one of our better players and wew traded him before he got expensive as well. It is pathetic that this organization cannot see what the Rays and Marlins of the world have been able to accomplish with half the payroll.

If we had the Rays' and/or Marlins' scouting and player development systems, I'd agree with you. But we definitely don't.

[mcneck]

I think a trade with the Braves in the off season, would be great if we could get two of their best young close to ML ready SP back, and sign Crisp.

I wouldn't mind seeing this as well but why not make the trade now so we save even more money?

[Sports Guy]

Yes he would...As I said to RZ earlier, I would want a guy who is already a TOR starter or someone on the cusp.

He asked who would make that deal...After looking at things, I am not sure. When you put a talent like that on the block, teams may make players available that you wouldn't think would be available.

Would the Rockies trade Jimenez for him? Would the Dodgers look into Jones for fear of losing Kemp and put a guy like Billingsley on the block? What about the Giants and Matt Cain? Cain is due 15 million next year and is a FA after that.

Some other guys could be out there as well.

BTW, I am not against what Gregg is proposing either...My issue is, will we screw up the development?

[mcneck]

If we had the Rays' and/or Marlins' scouting and player development systems, I'd agree with you. But we definitely don't.

But if we trade for the prospects they won't be developed by us

It is really sad to have to think that way but our developmental staff (especially position players) is horrendous.

[MrOrange82]

Yes he would...As I said to RZ earlier, I would want a guy who is already a TOR starter or someone on the cusp.

He asked who would make that deal...After looking at things, I am not sure. When you put a talent like that on the block, teams may make players available that you wouldn't think would be available.

Would the Rockies trade Jimenez for him? Would the Dodgers look into Jones for fear of losing Kemp and put a guy like Billingsley on the block? What about the Giants and Matt Cain? Cain is due 15 million next year and is a FA after that.

Some other guys could be out there as well.

BTW, I am not against what Gregg is proposing either...My issue is, will we screw up the development?

My issue, as well.

I'll add, though, that this is one of the situations wherein Andy's "quantity" predilection makes perfect sense. Doing a 1-for-1 with Jones would be an inexcusable waste, IMO. One TOR makes the Orioles better, sure, but I have zero faith in the team's being able to replace Jones' offensive production. Given how few trade chips the Orioles have, if they insist on going the trade route they've gotta bring back talent in bunches.

[Sports Guy]

My issue, as well.

I'll add, though, that this is one of the situations wherein Andy's "quantity" predilection makes perfect sense. Doing a 1-for-1 with Jones would be an inexcusable waste, IMO. One TOR makes the Orioles better, sure, but I have zero faith in the team's being able to replace Jones' offensive production. Given how few trade chips the Orioles have, if they insist on going the trade route they've gotta bring back talent in bunches.

So, if the M's would deal Jones for Felix, you say no?

[MrOrange82]

So, if the M's would deal Jones for Felix, you say no?

Of course not. Because in the real world, Felix could be flipped for a king's ransom of prospects which could significantly bolster the Orioles' system top to bottom. He'd probably net 5ish highly rated players at various stages in the minors.

Of course, in the real world, Jones alone doesn't come anywhere close to netting Felix.

[SteveA]

I'm referring to a trade that nets two/three pitching prospects for Adam Jones... would that be the right call moving forward?

Some examples...

...to Atlanta for LHP Mike Minor, and RHP Randall Delgado.

...to the Tigers for RHP Jacob Turner and LHP Casey Crosby.

...to the Rangers for LHP Martin Perez and LHP Robbie Erlin.

These are just examples. However, would these sort of deals be better for the team than keeping Jones alone?

Yeah, and then when those pitching prospects fail like everyone else in our system does, we'll be better off in the "long run"

by dealing Wieters for more prospects. Eventually we'll be dealing Machado for prospects.