2013 HOF Class

[Moose Milligan]

Pete Rose should be in, too.

Well of course he's banned, nothing has changed with that. He obviously deserves to be in, though.

He absolutely does, and I think it'll happen someday. However they'll probably wait until he's dead to do it as some sort of a punishment.

One of my dads friends went to the HoF awhile ago and said they had more of Rose's stuff in the HoF than anyone else. More pictures and pieces of memorabilia than anyone else.

[sangar]

He absolutely does, and I think it'll happen someday. However they'll probably wait until he's dead to do it as some sort of a punishment.

One of my dads friends went to the HoF awhile ago and said they had more of Rose's stuff in the HoF than anyone else. More pictures and pieces of memorabilia than anyone else.

So it sounds like he is in, just not officially. It's a good start.

[Austin]

So it sounds like he is in, just not officially. It's a good start.

You could say that for a bunch of players. Haven't been in years but last time I was there I noticed a ton of Mark McGwire stuff, I'm sure there's plenty of Barry Bonds stuff in there as well.

[DrungoHazewood]

He wasn't a slouch by any means...he also wasn't Bonds or Clemens. Piazza's defense would keep him from being inner circle HOF even without steroids. He is also as implicated as a person could be without a positive test on the record. For the record I would first ballot Bonds, Clemens and Piazza in that order.

I'd say "easily the best hitter at his position, ever" kinda makes you an inner circle HOFer. And it's not like he was the Adam Dunn of catchers with the glove. By bb-ref he was about a -5 catcher with the glove.

[DrungoHazewood]

So it sounds like he is in, just not officially. It's a good start.

That should be the end of it. Celebrate the accomplishments, but don't honor the guy who broke baseball's cardinal rule.

[Can_of_corn]

I'd say "easily the best hitter at his position, ever" kinda makes you an inner circle HOFer. And it's not like he was the Adam Dunn of catchers with the glove. By bb-ref he was about a -5 catcher with the glove.

*Shrug* there is only room in my inner circle for one catcher and its Bench.

[ledzepp8]

Well of course he's banned, nothing has changed with that. He obviously deserves to be in, though.

I don't think he's actually banned from the HOF. Just from being associated with MLB...but someone can obviously correct me on that if needed.

[JamesI]

I don't think he's actually banned from the HOF. Just from being associated with MLB...but someone can obviously correct me on that if needed.

The HOF ruled that players on baseball's ineligible list were not allowed induction. Basically only stops Rose and Shoeless Joe right now.

[ledzepp8]

The HOF ruled that players on baseball's ineligible list were not allowed induction. Basically only stops Rose and Shoeless Joe right now.

Well alright then, thanks for the correction.

[DrungoHazewood]

*Shrug* there is only room in my inner circle for one catcher and its Bench.

So, you're a tiny HOF guy, or at least someone who thinks "inner circle" means unambiguously the best player at each position in history? For example, you don't think Stan Musial is an inner circle HOFer, right?

[DrungoHazewood]

The HOF ruled that players on baseball's ineligible list were not allowed induction. Basically only stops Rose and Shoeless Joe right now.

No, it also stops Eddie Cicotte (and the rest of the Black Sox), Jim Devlin, George Hall, and others. Jackson and Rose are only the most prominent of the banned.

[Can_of_corn]

So, you're a tiny HOF guy, or at least someone who thinks "inner circle" means unambiguously the best player at each position in history? For example, you don't think Stan Musial is an inner circle HOFer, right?

Oh I have room at other positions for more then one guy. Heck if Piazza played league average defense I would have room for him, steroid accusations or not. I don't think the crop of catchers warrants more then one "inner circle".

I am a rather small HOF guy, not sure I would go so far as to say tiny. I do think folks like Rice and Puckett lower the standard more then I would prefer. To say nothing of what the veterans committee used to do back in the day.

[DrungoHazewood]

I just read Poz's article, and I have to completely disagree with his premise that Raffy was iffy as a HOFer prior to the steroid mess. I think if he was 100% clean he'd have absolutely gone into the Hall in his first few years of eligibility.

If not, he'd have set several new precedents:

- Only eligible player with 3000 hits to not be elected.

- Only eligible player with 500 homers not to be elected.

- Highest WAR total for a first baseman not in the Hall (assuming Bagwell goes in)

If elected, Palmeiro would be 1st among HOF first basemen in doubles, 4th in runs, 3rd in hits, 5th in RBI, either he or McGwire would be first in homers, 4th in walks (he walked more than George Sisler and Cap Anson combined).

Not only that, but there are plenty of first baseman in the Hall who you can make great cases for Raffy being a better player. Bill Terry. Frank Chance. Orlando Cepeda. Obviously Beckley, Perez, Kelly, and Bottomley. Raffy had a higher OPS+ than Eddie Murray, and a nearly identical WAR total.

If Poz wanted to concoct a scenario where Raffy wasn't elected, I guess he succeeded. But I also think that given that scenario he'd have become the next Blyleven or Raines (who, by the way, while an obvious HOFer, has a lower WAR total than Raffy), and would have gotten a nice grassroots campaign to eventually get him in.

[DrungoHazewood]

Oh I have room at other positions for more then one guy. Heck if Piazza played league average defense I would have room for him, steroid accusations or not. I don't think the crop of catchers warrants more then one "inner circle".

So what do you think of guys like Ted Williams, who like Piazza was a historic hitter but a indifferent fielder? Or guys like McCovey or Killebrew or Kiner or Duke Snider, or Reggie, who were pretty clearly below-average fielders for their careers? Not inner circle?

[Can_of_corn]

So what do you think of guys like Ted Williams, who like Piazza was a historic hitter but a indifferent fielder? Or guys like McCovey or Killebrew or Kiner or Duke Snider, or Reggie, who were pretty clearly below-average fielders for their careers? Not inner circle?

We going case by case on my inner circle? Williams is a two time war hero who was transcendent with the bat, he is inner circle to me even considering his glove. The other fine players you mention, while clearly deserving to be in the HoF do not make my inner circle.

Keep in mind my inner circle is just that mine, its as arbitrary as I want to make it and no I won't formulate an entire list for you so you can compare stats and tell me about all the inconsistencies in my personal list.