Jump to content

Does keeping the ball "down" really induce more groundballs?


Redgrape

Recommended Posts

I've read and listened to analysts speak about how a pitcher, "Needs to keep the ball down" in order to induce more groundballs and/or less homeruns. I've kind of felt like this was b.s., and I came across this article that supports my claim (kind of).

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/why-do-sinking-fastballs-cause-groundballs/

The article is about sinking fastballs. But if you look at the data, although lower balls down the middle did create more ground balls than higher balls, it seems like the more important thing is keeping the ball away. Pitches away from the hitter created significantly more ground balls than pitchers in on the hitter. And the interesting thing is in this data balls belt high and away actually created more grounders than low and away, again supporting the theory that pitching away is better for inducing groundballs.

Although this data isn't perfect, I'm surprised that most people still believe the "keep it down" philosophy when it may not hold water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be incorrect but I believe inducing grounders requires getting the hitter to swing over the top of the ball. One reason why outside pitches might create more grounders is that the hitters are reaching for the ball, and if they're trying to pull rather than making the adjustment to go the other way, they will probably swing over the top of the ball.

(I haven't read the article yet, so if it says something like that I apologize ;) )

I do think that theoretically you can pitch up and get grounders, but you have to get the hitter to think the ball is going to be even higher than it is, but it's difficult to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be incorrect but I believe inducing grounders requires getting the hitter to swing over the top of the ball. One reason why outside pitches might create more grounders is that the hitters are reaching for the ball, and if they're trying to pull rather than making the adjustment to go the other way, they will probably swing over the top of the ball.

(I haven't read the article yet, so if it says something like that I apologize ;) )

I do think that theoretically you can pitch up and get grounders, but you have to get the hitter to think the ball is going to be even higher than it is, but it's difficult to do.

The action of "rolling over" a pitch (your top hand rotating over your lead hand after you reach extension) lifts the barrel slightly off its plane, which leads to contact higher on the ball than the aimed plane would otherwise produce. That's what causes the weak groundballs to the pull side on outside pitches. This happens when the batter makes contact out in front of the plate on an outside pitch -- the contat occurs later in the swing than it should, and often times after the wrists roll.

When you hear about someone capable of driving the ball the opposite way, they are allowing the ball "to travel", which shortens the distance between barrel and ball and allows the hitter to make contact prior to achieving full extension. It produces harder contact while the barrel is still accelerating. The angle of impact pushes the ball to the opposite field because contact is made behind the hitter.

The opposite is true on inside pitches, with the batter "turning on it" when he is able to get the barrel to contact out in front of the plate, and "jammed" when the barrel doesn't get there (often producing soft contact the other way).

To the opening post, pitch location is not as important as pitch plane. Groundballs are produced when the plan of the bat and the plane of the ball match up such that contact is made on the upper half of the ball. The ability to throw at a downward angle makes it more difficult for the batter to "match planes", which is what keeps the barrel in the zone for the maximum amount of time and leads to the hardest amount of contact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The action of "rolling over" a pitch (your top hand rotating over your lead hand after you reach extension) lifts the barrel slightly off its plane, which leads to contact higher on the ball than the aimed plane would otherwise produce. That's what causes the weak groundballs to the pull side on outside pitches. This happens when the batter makes contact out in front of the plate on an outside pitch -- the contat occurs later in the swing than it should, and often times after the wrists roll.

When you hear about someone capable of driving the ball the opposite way, they are allowing the ball "to travel", which shortens the distance between barrel and ball and allows the hitter to make contact prior to achieving full extension. It produces harder contact while the barrel is still accelerating. The angle of impact pushes the ball to the opposite field because contact is made behind the hitter.

The opposite is true on inside pitches, with the batter "turning on it" when he is able to get the barrel to contact out in front of the plate, and "jammed" when the barrel doesn't get there (often producing soft contact the other way).

To the opening post, pitch location is not as important as pitch plane. Groundballs are produced when the plan of the bat and the plane of the ball match up such that contact is made on the upper half of the ball. The ability to throw at a downward angle makes it more difficult for the batter to "match planes", which is what keeps the barrel in the zone for the maximum amount of time and leads to the hardest amount of contact.

Nerd.

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The action of "rolling over" a pitch (your top hand rotating over your lead hand after you reach extension) lifts the barrel slightly off its plane, which leads to contact higher on the ball than the aimed plane would otherwise produce. That's what causes the weak groundballs to the pull side on outside pitches. This happens when the batter makes contact out in front of the plate on an outside pitch -- the contat occurs later in the swing than it should, and often times after the wrists roll.

When you hear about someone capable of driving the ball the opposite way, they are allowing the ball "to travel", which shortens the distance between barrel and ball and allows the hitter to make contact prior to achieving full extension. It produces harder contact while the barrel is still accelerating. The angle of impact pushes the ball to the opposite field because contact is made behind the hitter.

The opposite is true on inside pitches, with the batter "turning on it" when he is able to get the barrel to contact out in front of the plate, and "jammed" when the barrel doesn't get there (often producing soft contact the other way).

To the opening post, pitch location is not as important as pitch plane. Groundballs are produced when the plan of the bat and the plane of the ball match up such that contact is made on the upper half of the ball. The ability to throw at a downward angle makes it more difficult for the batter to "match planes", which is what keeps the barrel in the zone for the maximum amount of time and leads to the hardest amount of contact.

Excellent post. My point, however, was that it seems most people in baseball think the act of just throwing the ball in the low part of the zone is going to induce the most groundballs, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excellent post. My point, however, was that it seems most people in baseball think the act of just throwing the ball in the low part of the zone is going to induce the most groundballs, which doesn't seem to be the case.

You are correct. It is much more pitch plane than it is pitch location.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.



  • Posts

    • I’ve been basing my projections on what we have internally, and we still do have resources. But I am totally comfortable with making some trades to balance out the ML roster. I still think we’re deep in position players, but swinging some trades for more proper defense or righthandedness has my full support. I really just hope we unclog the log jam. This year was weird with the prospects we needed to trade away or find ABs for because they were done at AAA. I’d like to see us try to get most of that done in the offseason. 
    • Great SI article here: https://www.si.com/mlb/baltimore-orioles-golden-generation-loses-luster-loss-kansas-city-royals Sums it up for me.  Royals didn't even pitch all that well.  We just royally (pardon the pun) sucked.
    • I hear good questions all the time. The huge problem I see is the complete absence of pointed follow-up questions. It’s just going through the motions if that’s the case. 
    • Yes, the K rate was bad but people seem to forget he was a rookie this year and was still one of the best rookies in all of baseball.  He has a lot of talent, and I expect him to improve his walk rate and production next year even though he'll probably still strike out a ton.  I also hope that with a full year under his belt he won't press as much in pressure situations and improve his terrible RISP stats.  Then again, we don't know what these hitting coaches are teaching these guys so we'll have to wait and see what happens next year...
    • Maybe it's you that are not paying attention.  Elias has been holding prospects back so there are not too many of them breaking in at the same time for the last two seasons.
    • I think the playoffs not being attended angle is overplayed a bit. Last year we had Sat/Sun games in the ALDS. This year it was Tues/Wed afternoon games. I saw empty seats in Houston as well. 
    • In 2023 with runners in scoring position, on top of a .317 BABIP, they had a 10% BB rate (20th highest in the league) and a 18.7% K rate (2nd lowest in the league). Then, in 2024 with RISP, they had a 8.4% BB rate (28th in the league) and a 22.1% K rate (15th in the league).  So last year they put the ball in play more often and had better results when doing so. A good formula. BABIP has variance, but the BB% rate and K% rate feel like changes in approach that were going on all year long. 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...