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Reynolds: one error since July 4th


Frobby

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If your point is that range is at least as important as errors, I can easily get on board with that. I just think you go way too far when you say errors are meaningless. Tell that to the pitchers and see what they say. As to your point about analyzing them over a short time, it depends what you are trying to say. I'd agree that how many errors you make in a small sample size is not necessarily a good measure of your defensive ability. But that's not what we are talking about here -- we are talking about results. It is my observation that defense can be quite streaky -- a player makes a few errors, it gets in his head, and that leads to more errors. Similarly, when a player gets into a period where he is fielding solidly, he gets more confident, and that can lead to a prolonged period of relatively error-free play. Reynolds was in a very bad slump defensively for a good chunk of the first half of the season, and it's nice to see him playing better now. That is all I am really trying to say.

I think we disagree on several points here. I disagree that pitchers care about errors. They care about bad defensive plays, especially lack of effort, which might as well be the opposite of errors. I disagree that defense is streaky, and have never seen any evidence that it is any streakier than a random sampling. And lastly, I disagree that Reynolds has been playing better defensively, or at least remain skeptical while the only evidence is a small sample size of a poor metric that would have rated Reynolds better than the best 3B in the league last season.

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The other day Jones throws an absolutely perfect one-bouncer to him from center field to get the runner coming to third, and Reynolds muffed it. He's still making mistakes, just not always scored as errors. He's not a good third baseman.

Wieters did that a few times in the last couple of series, too...

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Wieters did that a few times in the last couple of series, too...

And the point of this is? Because saying someone else makes mistakes doesnt negate or erase your own errors.

Reynolds is muffing stuff almost once per game it seems. At least every other game he fails to make a play that someone like Mora would of made.

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And the point of this is? Because saying someone else makes mistakes doesnt negate or erase your own errors.

Reynolds is muffing stuff almost once per game it seems. At least every other game he fails to make a play that someone like Mora would of made.

Not at all. My statement was off-topic, just additional to those muffed catches on the close plays. I was really upset with a lot of the defense during the last series.

I, for one, do not like Reynolds at 3rd... at all.

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And the point of this is? Because saying someone else makes mistakes doesnt negate or erase your own errors.

Reynolds is muffing stuff almost once per game it seems. At least every other game he fails to make a play that someone like Mora would of made.

Well he's also hitting about 20 more homers than Mora would too. That doesn't excuse his defense at all but I'm willing to put up with some sub-par defense as long he produces offensively. It seems like he's improving defensively.

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And the point of this is? Because saying someone else makes mistakes doesnt negate or erase your own errors.

Reynolds is muffing stuff almost once per game it seems. At least every other game he fails to make a play that someone like Mora would of made.

I think he was just pointing out that the team as a whole has made some poor defensive plays lately that don't necessarily show up in the box score. He wasn't defending Reynolds.

I think you are exaggerating to a large degree the freqeuency with which Reynolds is muffing plays, especially recently. That said, I certainly agree that he appears to be below average defensively, and not as good as Mora was.

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Well he's also hitting about 20 more homers than Mora would too. That doesn't excuse his defense at all but I'm willing to put up with some sub-par defense as long he produces offensively. It seems like he's improving defensively.

He wasnt massively better than Mora. I would guess in Mora's best seasons he was quite a bit better than Reynolds offense.

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He wasnt massively better than Mora. I would guess in Mora's best seasons he was quite a bit better than Reynolds offense.

I didn't particularly say he was a better overall player than Mora, and yeah at Mora's peak he was likely more valuable - Melmo was insanely good for a couple years there. Reynolds has been a below average but serviceable third baseman throughout his career and it seems his historically bad defensive season might be turning around in the last couple of weeks. All I'm saying is I am fine with him at third because we don't have someone like Mora to take his place.

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Well he's also hitting about 20 more homers than Mora would too. That doesn't excuse his defense at all but I'm willing to put up with some sub-par defense as long he produces offensively. It seems like he's improving defensively.
He wasnt massively better than Mora. I would guess in Mora's best seasons he was quite a bit better than Reynolds offense.

He's not as good offensively as Mora was in his best seasons. Nor is he as good defensively. But his offense is pretty solid, and if he can get his defense back to "below average but acceptable" (which is where I believe he has been in his career prior to 2011), he's a pretty decent player.

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He's not as good offensively as Mora was in his best seasons. Nor is he as good defensively. But his offense is pretty solid, and if he can get his defense back to "below average but acceptable" (which is where I believe he has been in his career prior to 2011), he's a pretty decent player.

Agree. All I'm saying is that he is bringing something to the table at third base and we don't really have anyone else I'd rather see out there.

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I disagree that pitchers care about errors. They care about bad defensive plays, especially lack of effort, which might as well be the opposite of errors. .

I am not sure why you would think pitchers do not care about errors. I can think of multiple times where an error has been made in the field, and they show the pitcher's reaction and you see a moment of irritation. Obviously, they mostly try to mask it quickly so as not to show up their teammates (with a few exceptions), but you can see pretty clearly that they are unhappy when a play is not made.

Ultimately, you are correct in that errors are just one part of the evaluation of a player's defense. But just because that particular metric is overused by some doesn't mean you need to go too far the other way and call it meaningless.

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I am not sure why you would think pitchers do not care about errors. I can think of multiple times where an error has been made in the field, and they show the pitcher's reaction and you see a moment of irritation. Obviously, they mostly try to mask it quickly so as not to show up their teammates (with a few exceptions), but you can see pretty clearly that they are unhappy when a play is not made.

My problem here is that you are equating bad/dumb/lazy plays here with errors. The two have little if anything to do with each other. Pitchers get irked by bad and especially dumb/lazy plays, not errors. I have never seen any evidence that pitchers care about errors. Do they wait for the official scorer to make his ruling before getting upset? Just because some of the plays they get upset by happen to be errors, does not mean we can equate the two.

Ultimately, you are correct in that errors are just one part of the evaluation of a player's defense. But just because that particular metric is overused by some doesn't mean you need to go too far the other way and call it meaningless.

I call it meaningless because it is supposed to be a metric of bad defense, and it will often penalize good defense. That is a truly meaningless stat. Home Runs are a good stat because they are never strikeouts. Strikeouts are a good stat because they are never hits. A stat that is often the opposite of what it is supposed to be is useless.

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My problem here is that you are equating bad/dumb/lazy plays here with errors. The two have little if anything to do with each other. Pitchers get irked by bad and especially dumb/lazy plays, not errors. I have never seen any evidence that pitchers care about errors. Do they wait for the official scorer to make his ruling before getting upset? Just because some of the plays they get upset by happen to be errors, does not mean we can equate the two.

So, you're really just arguing semantics.

I would virtually guarantee that most pitchers are pretty familiar with which of their fielders makes the most errors.

I call it meaningless because it is supposed to be a metric of bad defense, and it will often penalize good defense. That is a truly meaningless stat. Home Runs are a good stat because they are never strikeouts. Strikeouts are a good stat because they are never hits. A stat that is often the opposite of what it is supposed to be is useless.

I do not think it "penalizes good defense" nearly as often as you make it out to happen.

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He is not a 3B on a contending team. He is not surehanded. He misses throws for Wieters that should be outs. He misses throws from the outfield the should be outs. He positions himself for throw from the outfield poorly. When he plays in to cut off the bunt his reactions are poor. He is darn hard to watch in the field.

He has to be moved off 3rd if the O's want to contend IMO.

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