We have ourselves some OK positional players...

[Sports Guy]

He is doing it now at AAA.

Which level is better, AAA or MLB?

[Sports Guy]

Ludicrous. It will be difficult to be a good slugging guy without power; OBP has nothing to do with power. Only plate discipline and contact.

That said, you are correct: Angle is at best a pinch runner and defensive replacement on the O's, let alone a good baseball team. His bat will barely carry as a centerfielder.

Ummmm, this is very wrong.

If you have no power, pitchers will just challenge you all day long because you can't hurt them.

[Enjoy Terror]

Who is the O's leadoff hitter next year if Roberts is not healthy?

I'm not sure, I guess Angle wouldn't be terrible if he has a line like Andino does at the moment... But I don't think anyone is enamored with Andino either. If he can steal 30 bases, slap singles, and play a solid left field, he'd pretty much be exactly what I thought Pie would be by now.

[Enjoy Terror]

Ummmm, this is very wrong.

If you have no power, pitchers will just challenge you all day long because you can't hurt them.

Scott Podsednik and Juan Pierre made great careers out of no power and great OBP.

Denard Span, Elvis Andrus, Shin Soo Choo and Coco Crisp are doing it now. Bobby Abreu is at the moment. Markakis can be argued too. This is just the AL I'm looking at.

[gtown]

There is a correlation between power and OBP for the reason that Sports Guy mentioned. However, there are some high OBP low SLG players that are able to foul off pitches to either coax a walk or get the right pitch to slap the other way into the outfield.

I'm not saying the Angle is that guy--he probably isn't--but such players do exist, although it's not that common.

That said, I'd rather have a pure hitter with a little bit of pop at the top of the lineup.

[Sports Guy]

Scott Podsednik and Juan Pierre made great careers out of no power and great OBP.

Denard Span, Elvis Andrus, Shin Soo Choo and Coco Crisp are doing it now. Bobby Abreu is at the moment. Markakis can be argued too. This is just the AL I'm looking at.

How many of those guys have shown they can do it with 350 or worse slugging %?

And how are you defining a good OBP?

I am looking at some of your examples and i see guys with 330ish OBP. I mean, I guess that is ok but its not great.

And its not a consistent thing either.

[Sports Guy]

Pointing out reality isn't stupidity, but I know you shape your own reality with your cocky attitude so it amuses me.

LOL..You didn't point out reality, you were just being a jerk and bringing nothing to the thread..which is what you usually do.

[gtown]

For most of the losing seasons, the Orioles have suffered from what I call Joe Orsulak syndrome. Orsulak was a popular player whose best numbers were with the Orioles but for his career is a 3rd or 4th outfielder. The fan base seems enamored with this type of player. Sadly, having three Joe Orsulaks in your outfield isn't a formula for winning. Problem is, most teams generate a lot of offense from their outfields. Even the Dodgers have two studs in their outfield. So let's look back since 1998. How many truly great outfield seasons have we seen?

Eric Davis - 1998

Albert Belle - 1999 (some in RF, some at DH)

Melvin Mora - 2001 (mostly in CF)

Nick Markakis - 2008

And including Markakis is pushing it.

Now look at the players who have received significant time in the Orioles OF in that era:

Marty Cordova, Chris Singleton, Jay Gibbons, Larry Bigbie, Luis Matos, David Newhan, Jerry Hairston, Eric Byrnes, Corey Patterson, Jay Payton, Nolan Reimold, Felix Pie.

There have been others--Adam Jones and Luke Scott were decent, although in Scott's big year, he played DH-1B more than LF. We had Brady near the end of his career and Sammy Sosa as well.

I see a lot of 4th outfielders on the list and I'm being generous.

What's worse is, it's what we as a fan base have come to expect from the O's outfield. That's gotta improve.

[Babypowder]

Scott Podsednik and Juan Pierre made great careers out of no power and great OBP.

Denard Span, Elvis Andrus, Shin Soo Choo and Coco Crisp are doing it now. Bobby Abreu is at the moment. Markakis can be argued too. This is just the AL I'm looking at.

Juan Pierre's career OBP is .345, while that isn't bad...it certainly isn't "great". I wouldn't call his career "great" either. Podsednik is in the same boat at .340.

Shin Soo Choo has no power? Then how did he hit 20 and 22 homers in 2009 and 2010, while slugging almost .500?

[Nigel Tufnel]

Melvin Mora - 2001 (mostly in CF)

I agree with everything else you said, but I'm not sure why Mora's on the list of great seasons.

[MikeAD]

I see a thread like this, and the topic is a good one, but the responses are what show me our future is bleaker by the day. NMS points out that we have some very good players. Jones in CF/LF, Reynolds at one of the corners and Hardy at SS is a great part of a team. But its 1/3 of a team. Then I see posts about Angle, Adams/Davis, whatever other player might currently be playing ok in the minors. We have a decent shot that 2 (hopefully 3) of Machado, Schoops, and Hoes are successful Major Leaguers. But flash forward 2.5-3 seasons and you'll likely see a similar thread about how we have a handful of very good players.

The overall lack of talent at darn near every position completely diminishes the talent we have at some positions. It also is what makes passing on guys like Rasmus all the more infuriating. We have got to bring in maximum talent at all costs. We need to be in a position where we aren't even discussing a guy like Matt Angle as even a 4th OFer.

[Sports Guy]

Juan Pierre's career OBP is .345, while that isn't bad...it certainly isn't "great". I wouldn't call his career "great" either. Podsednik is in the same boat at .340.

Shin Soo Choo has no power? Then how did he hit 20 and 22 homers in 2009 and 2010, while slugging almost .500?

And those guys carry higher lifetime slugging% than I think a guy like Angle would.

And, there better OBP years were accompanied by better slugging years, which obviously help their career numbers.

Just like anything else, there are always potential exceptions to a rule but to rely on an exception is pretty poor.

[Babypowder]

And those guys carry higher lifetime slugging% than I think a guy like Angle would.

And, there better OBP years were accompanied by better slugging years, which obviously help their career numbers.

Just like anything else, there are always potential exceptions to a rule but to rely on an exception is pretty poor.

Their better OBP years were batting average driven, especially in Pierre's case. Higher batting average obviously means higher slugging percentage.

[UMDTerrapins]

I'm jumping on late here, but are we saying that Angle should not get a look this fall? It's one thing to say you don't have high expectations for the guy, but at least let's see what we've got. We've already shed a couple of lesser prospects that could have helped this year (Turner/Beato), with nothing in return. Do they all have to be Machado's for us to give them the time of day? What's with the resistance? The season is dead. Let's get some intel at least.

[MikeAD]

I'm jumping on late here, but are we saying that Angle should not get a look this fall? It's one thing to say you don't have high expectations for the guy, but at least let's see what we've got. We've already shed a couple of lesser prospects that could have helped this year (Turner/Beato), with nothing in return. Do they all have to be Machado's for us to give them the time of day? What's with the resistance? The season is dead. Let's get some intel at least.

While I can't speak for SG, I am not saying that Angle should't get a look. What I am saying is if hes a "hope" at all we are screwed. And even if he gets all of September to show us something, and performs, it won't tell us anything as its just a handful of games. You still have to go into the off season with a huge hole in LF.