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Wieters' blast tonight

Frobby

By Frobby
in Orioles Talk

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Except its not. Average-ish hitting catcher with good defense. That was my point. That's why I said Molina. The fact that Wieters may end up with a WAR of .4 higher doesn't change that and it is idiotic to even point that out as if it is an exaggeration. Its just you doing what you do..Trying to cause an argument over nothing.

You SHOULD be smart enough to understand where I am going with the Molina comment...SHOULD being the key word I guess.

I really need to learn to ignore you because most of the time, this is all you bring anymore..Such a shame, you used to be worth reading.

He's not an average hitting catcher, he's an average hitter period as has been shown. Him having a WAR higher than any year any Molina has ever had in his 2nd full season is pretty telling that he's not just a Molina brother. He's better than that. That's all I was saying. Sorry that you take such offense to a simple factual statement.

As far as your other nonsense, I had a response written out, but I'll be the bigger man here.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Wieters is at least twice as good defensively as any of the 5 C's who are ahead of him offensively. Nobody was disappinted with Ozzie Smith's career 87 OPS+ bat, when he was a perreniel AS because of his glove. The defensive adjustment is greater for C's than SS. I am not sure people understand just how much better Wieters is with his glove.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Wieters is at least twice as good defensively as any of the 5 C's who are ahead of him offensively. Nobody was disappinted with Ozzie Smith's career 87 OPS+ bat, when he was a perreniel AS because of his glove. The defensive adjustment is greater for C's than SS. I am not sure people understand just how much better Wieters is with his glove.
We understand...we just don't care.

He was drafted to be a franchise, cornerstone player...He isn't even remotely close to that.

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UnashamedRiver Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

UnashamedRiver

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We understand...we just don't care.

He was drafted to be a franchise, cornerstone player...He isn't even remotely close to that.

Franchise catchers don't exist anymore or at least your interpretation of them. They are a dying breed. It's too demanding physically for Mauer. Posey went down. Molina is a franchise catcher, but he doesn't really provide the thump. Honestly guys it's time to get over it with the whole Wieters can't hit thing. You just don't get the thump from the catcher position in today's MLB. Nobody except the tigers is really getting it.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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So if Ozzie was your SS you'd be disappointed in him as well? :rolleyestf:
First of all, Ozzie did that for a career, not one season, so let's not put Wieters at that level quite yet. You are ready to call him one of the greatest fielders ever, for any position?

Secondly, if all Manny Machado ends up being is the equivalent to what Wieters is now, a 730ish OPS, upper echelon fielder than yes, I would be disappointed.

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ShaneDawg85 Hangout Veteran Council

ShaneDawg85

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Franchise catchers don't exist anymore or at least your interpretation of them. They are a dying breed. It's too demanding physically for Mauer. Posey went down. Molina is a franchise catcher, but he doesn't really provide the thump. Honestly guys it's time to get over it with the whole Wieters can't hit thing. You just don't get the thump from the catcher position in today's MLB. Nobody except the tigers is really getting it.

Brian McCann says hi. Alex Avila and Carlos Santana say hi. Buster Posey and Joe Mauer say hi. The idea that a franchise catcher doesn't exist is ridiculous, because they do, and right now Matt Wieters, offensively at least, but in my view overall, is the worst of them all, and that is unacceptable.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Franchise catchers don't exist anymore or at least your interpretation of them. They are a dying breed. It's too demanding physically for Mauer. Posey went down. Molina is a franchise catcher, but he doesn't really provide the thump. Honestly guys it's time to get over it with the whole Wieters can't hit thing. You just don't get the thump from the catcher position in today's MLB. Nobody except the tigers is really getting it.
McCann, Mauer, Posey...all are franchise catchers.

And you can't say you don't see it and then say you see it in Detroit.

People have gone from he is a franchise player and future face of the team to be excited that he is a 3 WAR player, 3 years into his career, while barely being an average hitter.

If Wieters was another team and the Orioles passed him up, most of you would be saying that it wasn't that big of a deal that we didn't draft him. You would be talking about how good our scouts were for identifying his slow bat, long swing, etc...

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UnashamedRiver Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

UnashamedRiver

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McCann, Mauer, Posey...all are franchise catchers.

And you can't say you don't see it and then say you see it in Detroit.

Posey is done. Mauers catching days with good offense is over. McCann can't stay healthy and his defense is atrocious. There isn't a single catcher today who would fit your description of a franchise player. The problem with our offense has been horrible production form 1B these past years.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Posey is done. Mauers catching days with good offense is over. McCann can't stay healthy and his defense is atrocious. There isn't a single catcher today who would fit your description of a franchise player. The problem with our offense has been horrible production form 1B these past years.
How is Posey done? Do you have a link saying he is done?

Mauer was an elite hitter for like 6 years and could still be that player

McCann came into this season with 5 straight years of 130 or more games played and 4 of those years were 138 or more.

In other words, your argument is awful and has no facts behind it.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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We understand...we just don't care.

He was drafted to be a franchise, cornerstone player...He isn't even remotely close to that yet.

Fixed that for you.

OK, fair enough. He's not a franchise player right now, and maybe he never will be. But let's wait and see. I agree with you that if this is the level at which he is going to hit, we won't have gotten what we'd hoped out of the pick, because expectations were so high. I still think he will hit significantly better, for reasons I've stated. No point in arguing about it -- we will see what happens.

He has the second-highest WAR of anyone in his draft class, and his WAR is increasing every year. He's already 9th all time in WAR among players who were drafted no. 5.

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UnashamedRiver Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

UnashamedRiver

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How is Posey done?

Mauer was an elite hitter for like 6 years and could still be that player

McCann came into this season with 5 straight years of 130 or more games played and 4 of those years were 138 or more.

In other words, your argument is awful and has no facts behind it.

Mauer is done at catcher. He has to move. McCann can hit. That's great, but his fielding is terrible. Posey is injured and may never be the same. Where all the franchise catchers? Injured and non productive according to your interpretation.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Mauer is done at catcher. He has to move. McCann can hit. That's great, but his fielding is terrible. Posey is injured and may never be the same. Where all the franchise catchers? Injured and non productive according to your interpretation.
4 of the last 6 seasons, McCann has had a WAR of 4 or higher and one of those years is this year...and its 3.8...so he will likely go over 4 again.

So, McCann's "lack of defense" still makes him a player worth around 20M a season.

Again, you are wrong.

And if all we got 6 elite hitting years from Wieters and he had to move to first base, so be it. Not sure why you are using Mauer here..He hurts your cause, not help it.

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Frobby Hangout Grand Counsel

Frobby

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Mauer is done at catcher. He has to move. McCann can hit. That's great, but his fielding is terrible. Posey is injured and may never be the same. Where all the franchise catchers? Injured and non productive according to your interpretation.

I don't agree with SG's position regarding Wieters, but none of these points undercut what he said about when hitters show they are elite. Just like I agreed with you that most young pitchers never get much better, it'a also true that most really excellent hitters have proved they are excellent hitters by the time they are Wieters' age, regardless of what position they play. Sure, there are plenty of exceptions, and I personally believe Wieters will be one of them. But by and large, SG is correct about what happens most of the time (even for catchers).

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