For the Desmond Jennings non-believers...

[Frobby]

Yeah, and they caught lightening in the bottle with the Yankees and Red Sox falling off each one year while they hit on all cylinders. Come talk to me after you look over a ten year period of time and I'll bet you TB will be lucky to have one or two more appearances over the same span. You are fooling yourself if you think the D-Rays will be able to consistently compete with the Red Sox and Yankees payrolls. They do most things right and they have little no chance of the playoffs this year and little chance of hope that they will in the near future. It's ashamed, but it the truth. That three year window was the pinnacle of Tampa Bay reaping the fruits of drafting so high in the draft every year. Without that luxury, things will dry up and they will be fighting it out with the Blue Jays and maybe the Orioles one day for 3rd place. thus is life in the AL East. Sure, you might have that perfect year where everything clicks and maybe the Red Sox or Yankees have an injury riddled year they can't overcome, but over a 162-game unbalanced schedule, the Red Sox and Yankees will in the vast majority of years finish 1st and 2nd.

No one cares outside of the three cities that are screwed so it probably won't change. Anything can happen in a five game of seven game series so the other teams in the AL don't care and MLB was falsely show that as some kind of level playing field. MLB is a joke.

Tony, I have made this point several times before, but I will repeat it: the Rays won the division in 2008 and 2010. Therefore, if NY and/or Boston had been better in those years, it wouldn't have caused Tampa to miss the playoffs, it would have caused the other of NY and Boston to miss them.

I don't know if Tampa has any more playoff appearances in them in the near future or not. There is no question that the financial deck is stacked against them. I will say this, though -- any team that makes the playoffs 3 times in 10 years is beating the statistical odds. So, if the Rays can have one more playoff appearance in the next 7 seasons (including this one), they are doing above average no matter what division they play in. They deserve a ton of credit for what they have accomplished.

[MikeAD]

Yeah, and they caught lightening in the bottle with the Yankees and Red Sox falling off each one year while they hit on all cylinders. Come talk to me after you look over a ten year period of time and I'll bet you TB will be lucky to have one or two more appearances over the same span. You are fooling yourself if you think the D-Rays will be able to consistently compete with the Red Sox and Yankees payrolls. They do most things right and they have little no chance of the playoffs this year and little chance of hope that they will in the near future. It's ashamed, but it the truth. That three year window was the pinnacle of Tampa Bay reaping the fruits of drafting so high in the draft every year. Without that luxury, things will dry up and they will be fighting it out with the Blue Jays and maybe the Orioles one day for 3rd place. thus is life in the AL East. Sure, you might have that perfect year where everything clicks and maybe the Red Sox or Yankees have an injury riddled year they can't overcome, but over a 162-game unbalanced schedule, the Red Sox and Yankees will in the vast majority of years finish 1st and 2nd.

No one cares outside of the three cities that are screwed so it probably won't change. Anything can happen in a five game of seven game series so the other teams in the AL don't care and MLB was falsely show that as some kind of level playing field. MLB is a joke.

Where I disagree is that for the foreseeable future the Rays will have better Pitching and Defense than New York. This year, there win total would be too low to compete in any division (maybe the AL Central), but I think they make the playoffs 3-4 times in the next ten years. They will continue to have good pitching and good talent, and their offense will allow them to compete when one of the Red Sox or Yankees have an off year. When both teams are hot, they will still contend.

And they will do it all with good, cost-efficient players. They will put out a talented roster because they have a talented front office.

[Sports Guy]

Absolutely. RT @peepsdog @Kevin_Goldstein does Tampa have enough talent in the minors to stay relevant in future years?

From Goldstein.

[JDubs]

The sad part is Tampa nails talent like DJ in the 10th round and we can't even get impact players in round 1.

The saddest part is that their player development is the key component in nailing the talent. We never would have developed Desmond Jennings to the level he has risen.

[OFFNY]

.

This is my post from another thread. It was in regard to Tampa Bay overall as a team, and how they are as tough as nails, regardless of their surrounding circumstances. Desmond Jennings stepping up and performing well in the limited time that he has played this season (since his promotion from AAA-Durham) after the loss of Carl Crawford to their division-rival Red Sox is just one example of what I was pointing out ......

.

The TAMPA BAY D-RAYS are a God-damned buzz-saw. A team with a $42 Million payroll that is a friggin' buzz-saw that plays in the same division with 2 other teams with gluttonous payrolls (the Yankees and the Red Sox). It’s as simple as that. They kick ass, take names, don’t make excuses, and leave you holding your head wondering what the hell happened after they bust your ass.

http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=310817102

They won't make the playoffs because they probably needed to sweep all 3 games from the Red Sox instead of winning 2-out-of-3 like they did, but still ....... I admire those SOB's more than any other team in all of sports.

[slowbynot]

They'll compete for the next few years because of Price-Shields-Hellickson plus Niemann. Add the best starter prospect around (Matt Moore) and depth with Davis and Cobb and you're going to have a chance to win most games. The question is if they can afford a bat or two plus shoring up the bullpen, but they have arms for that (Torres/Archer). A great lesson to learn from them is to not try to compete with the Red Sox / Yankees, but rather build the best team you can and let fate take care of the rest. The Blue Jays are starting to figure it out. Hopefully, Baltimore will soon, as well.

[baseball777]

Yeah, and they caught lightening in the bottle with the Yankees and Red Sox falling off each one year while they hit on all cylinders. Come talk to me after you look over a ten year period of time and I'll bet you TB will be lucky to have one or two more appearances over the same span. You are fooling yourself if you think the D-Rays will be able to consistently compete with the Red Sox and Yankees payrolls. They do most things right and they have little no chance of the playoffs this year and little chance of hope that they will in the near future. It's ashamed, but it the truth. That three year window was the pinnacle of Tampa Bay reaping the fruits of drafting so high in the draft every year. Without that luxury, things will dry up and they will be fighting it out with the Blue Jays and maybe the Orioles one day for 3rd place. thus is life in the AL East. Sure, you might have that perfect year where everything clicks and maybe the Red Sox or Yankees have an injury riddled year they can't overcome, but over a 162-game unbalanced schedule, the Red Sox and Yankees will in the vast majority of years finish 1st and 2nd.

No one cares outside of the three cities that are screwed so it probably won't change. Anything can happen in a five game of seven game series so the other teams in the AL don't care and MLB was falsely show that as some kind of level playing field. MLB is a joke.

Actually NY, Boston and Tampa have very good farm systems and smart GM's. Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman certainly have bigger budgets which allows them to do more in terms of FA than Tampa. Each of these guys is VERY educated and understand the business aspect of the game. If the choose to they can pay over slot money during the draft as well, but small market teams are also doing this and the Pirates set an all-time record this season.

Tampa is forced to spend money on development because they just could not continue to afford higher priced FA's (even their own) and their player development system is very good. This point was made by several posters and is a tribute to their management. They work to maximize their choices when they believe there will be a "loaded" draft. They allowed or timed the loss of many of their top players in 2010. They recieved 10 picks in the 1st 70 in 2011 which should allow them to re-stock quickly as this draft is considered very deep.

Tampa actually has had a terrible history of FA signings and low productivity from their draft when you consider their yearly draft positions. They had some luck, with Carl Crawford & BJ Upton but until recently they did not draft well, but they have really turned it around. They have several top prospects ready to enter the ML and have several players they developed making large contributions.

When you consider how much better a situation the Orioles were in it is extremely frustrating and points a finger at management. Fans should read the new book, "The Extra 2%: How Wall Street Strategies Took a Major League Baseball Team from Worst to First" to see how inept the Rays team was during its early years and how they developed a successful business model and turned it around.

The Red Sox have developed a good core of young players as well and have traded many of them to receive veteran players. Plus they have signed some quality FA's.The Yankees have also supplemented their normal FA signings with players from their farm systems. They are more reluctant to trade prospects (maybe because they are not as deep as Boston & Tampa) so they target need and offer big money. Why trade when you can sign and give up a draft pick even though they have not done this with the same frequency as during the George S years.

The Yankees, Red Sox, and Tampa ALL have GOOD players AND prospects whether they developed them, traded for them, or signed them as FA's. The Orioles basically DO NOT! When these Type A FA's leave, these teams normally get a supplemental 1st or second rounder which either cancels out losing their own pick if they sign a similar FA or the get a bonus high round pick.

The point is that even though the Red Sox and Yankees have large budgets they also develop a lot of talent through the draft and their management positions them to acquire additional picks. Epstein had Victor Martinez as a "rental player" and received a supplemental pick when he left. a Win-Win situation. He also evaluated and believed that Saltalamacchia could step up and finally exhibit the talent that was expected of him and he was right.

So the rich also get richer in terms of signing more talent. I already mentioned the Rays 2011 draft situation but the Red Sox had 4 picks in the top 40 in 2011! 3 more than the O's because they they received picks when they lost Victor Martinez (whom they traded propects for) and Beltre. They Orioles have thier #1 but gave up their 2nd rounder for signing Kevin Gregg. AND the Yankees have 2 picks!

So in a deep draft the O's get 1 pick in the 1st 70 slots. Both Epstein and Friedman ensured they would have a good shot at a deep draft. Epstein has done this previously on a predicted deep draft in 2005 (which hit on Esbury, Bucholz, and Lowrie) so it isn't by luck he has done this again. MacPhail has had the same amount of time to try to position the O's in a similar manner but has not done so. The Orioles need a new GM who can compete on a similar business level as Epstein and Freidman, (and even Cashman) who all understand the business dynamics of the game. Andy is an old school GM who is unprepared to deal with these individuals on a similar intelectual level and follow a successful business model for success.

If you haven't read the book it is a great read and send Peter A a copy! Maybe he will hire a smart, young, creative, hungry GM who has the business accumen to develop a successful business model as well as hire similar individuals to allow the O's to compete in todays game even though there budget is not that of the Yankees or Red Sox.

[Tony-OH]

Tony, I have made this point several times before, but I will repeat it: the Rays won the division in 2008 and 2010. Therefore, if NY and/or Boston had been better in those years, it wouldn't have caused Tampa to miss the playoffs, it would have caused the other of NY and Boston to miss them.

I don't know if Tampa has any more playoff appearances in them in the near future or not. There is no question that the financial deck is stacked against them. I will say this, though -- any team that makes the playoffs 3 times in 10 years is beating the statistical odds. So, if the Rays can have one more playoff appearance in the next 7 seasons (including this one), they are doing above average no matter what division they play in. They deserve a ton of credit for what they have accomplished.

No one is taking anything away from the Rays. In fact, I would say they've done a fantastic job in developing a franchise. Sayig that, I don't care what anyone says, the deck is significantly stacked against them as long as MLB allows for an uneven playing field and unbalanced schedule.

[Tony-OH]

I'm glad you guys have faith. I have lost any hope that the Orioles or any team in the AL East will ever have a chance to compete year and year out with the Yankees and Red Sox.

Tampa has done pretty much everything right and they are 8.5 games out of first place.

For those that think the Rays pitching is better so they will compete forget one thing, the Yankees and Red Sox will go out and buy the best pitchers out there and improve their team even more next year.

The Rays will continue to add good young pitchers then they'll have to move them when they get expensive. Eventually they'll miss on some guys and they'll fall back to the Blue Jays and orioles pack. Meanwhile, the Red Sox and Yankees will just sign the best amateur and foreign talent, trade for the best players available, all while MLB turns a blind eye.

Everyone is making money so who really cares? MLB fans have been destroyed in Baltimore outside of the diehards. People can't give tickets away, if you talk about them people are like, "Why?," Baltimore Sports Radio is 99% Ravens talk from Late July-August on and even me, a die-hard Orioles/baseball fan is disgusted to the point that I've given up hope.

Honestly, I just don't care anymore and that's the sad part. The uneven playing field is obviously not the only reason the Orioles have failed over the last 14 years, but it's certainly a detriment to getting better. When you see an organization like Tampa do just about everything right yet they are 8.5 games out of first place it tells you we have little to no hope to compete.

I hate to be debbie-downer, but it's the way I feel. I've lost my mojo for the Orioles and now I have to look hard at what that means for the future.

[baseball777]

You make a lot of valid points and have every right as a long term loyal fan to be upset. The only thing that is going to change this mess is new ownership and management. Or a change in philosophy by the current owner to spend money to hire the best and acquire/develope the pieces that are needed. In comparision the Orioles have a better ballpark, better fan base, and a better budget than the Rays. With all this they still cannot even compete with Tampa who have nothing campared to Baltimore EXCEPT smart management and a plan for success.

14 years ago the Orioles were the envy of the league. They have been run into the ground while both Boston and NY were significantly upgrading. The Orioles are to blame for not upgrading as well. Can it be accomplished??? Well if Tampa can do it the Orioles shold be able.

[Remember The Alomar]

Bumpity bump bump.