Jamie Moyer ain't retiring yet

[lint06]

I was disappointed he was hurt this year because I was pulling for him to pitch until he was 51 and get 300.

[TGO]

I was going to say all power to Moyer, you go you old fart! (Thinking he was older than me...) Looked it up and I've got him by about 5 months. Screw him.

Seriously, all power to him. I always liked Jamie and respected his late blossoming and longevity. Not sure if I'd take a chance on him here... gut says if anyone could do it it would be a soft tosser like him, heart says yes, head says no.

Yeah, realistically he needs to find a spacious ballpark to pitch in, which is not Camden Yards, but I can't help rooting for the guy.

[bobmc]

:scratchchinhmm::laughlol:

...Seriously, all power to him. I always liked Jamie and respected his late blossoming and longevity. Not sure if I'd take a chance on him here...gut says if anyone could do it it would be a soft tosser like him, heart says yes, head says no.

Trouble is gut and heart say Chinese a lot - how has that worked out? :scratchchinhmm::laughlol:

[murph]

I love the fact that he is coming back to pitch again at 49, the win total doesn't bother me in the least, Palmer's 268 wins resonate much louder than 300 plus would for soft-tossing Moyer. Although, don't they say some pitchers come back from TJ throwing harder than ever...watch him start sitting at 88 - 90, lose his command and start getting hammered like another lefty we know...

[DrungoHazewood]

Mussina will be behind Clemens, Maddux, Martinez, Johnson, and Glavine. He will pretty much be neck and neck with Schilling, Smoltz and Petitte. I don't see all those guys getting in.

Why not? It would be pretty strange is the top 10 or 12 pitchers from a decade didn't get in. In any given season there are 30 or more future HOFers active.

[Frobby]

Mussina will be behind Clemens, Maddux, Martinez, Johnson, and Glavine. He will pretty much be neck and neck with Schilling, Smoltz and Petitte. I don't see all those guys getting in.

I think they will all get in -- eventually. The first six are first ballot HOFers, but Clemens has the steroids issue that may keep him out. The others may take a while.

[Can_of_corn]

Why not? It would be pretty strange is the top 10 or 12 pitchers from a decade didn't get in. In any given season there are 30 or more future HOFers active.

How many from the '80's are in?

Frobby you think Schilling is first ballot? I respectfully disagree, his win total will hurt him as will his personality. I do think he will get in on the back of his postseason work but not first ballot.

[DrungoHazewood]

How many from the '80's are in?

13 pitchers who threw at least 300 innings in the decade. Plus several more, like Jack Morris and Lee Smith, who could still go in. And the 1980s were a strange, transitional decade where almost all the great pitchers were either very late in their careers (Palmer, Seaver), or just getting started (Clemens, Gooden). Almost no one just came up in 1977 or 1979 and pitched for 20 years. It was a very weak decade for pitching and you still have 13-15 HOF pitchers from that era.

[DrungoHazewood]

Frobby you think Schilling is first ballot? I respectfully disagree, his win total will hurt him as will his personality. I do think he will get in on the back of his postseason work but not first ballot.

The whole "first ballot" thing is completely overdone, and meaningless. Schilling will go in, almost no doubt. He sits at 70 WAR, give or take half a win. There are 11 pitchers from 65-75 WAR and the only ones not in the Hall (and I'm counting Mussina and Pedro as "in") are Rich Reuschel and Tony Mullane. Mullane pitched 120 years ago and nobody remembers him, and Reuschel had the misfortune of pitching almost totally for bad teams limiting him to "only" 214 wins.

[Frobby]

Frobby you think Schilling is first ballot? I respectfully disagree, his win total will hurt him as will his personality. I do think he will get in on the back of his postseason work but not first ballot.

I mis-counted. Meant to say first five, and of course, without Clemens it's only four. Whether Schilling gets in before Mussina is anyone's guess. There are arguments either way.

[Can_of_corn]

13 pitchers who threw at least 300 innings in the decade. Plus several more, like Jack Morris and Lee Smith, who could still go in. And the 1980s were a strange, transitional decade where almost all the great pitchers were either very late in their careers (Palmer, Seaver), or just getting started (Clemens, Gooden). Almost no one just came up in 1977 or 1979 and pitched for 20 years. It was a very weak decade for pitching and you still have 13-15 HOF pitchers from that era.

I wasn't counting relief pitchers Drungo, Mike was a starter so his peer group is starting pitchers.

You said the "top pitchers of the decade" I know wins are a crap stat but HOF voters like wins so lets look at the top 10 winners from the '80's.

1 Jack Morris 162

2 Dave Stieb 140

3 Bob Welch 137

T4 Fernando Valenzuela 128

T4 Charlie Hough 128

6 Bert Blyleven 123

7 Nolan Ryan 122

8 Jim Clancy 119

9 Frank Viola 117

10 Rick Sutcliffe 116

See many HOF guys there? Want to look at #11-20?

11 Mike Scott 114

T12 Floyd Bannister 112

T12 Doyle Alexander 112

14 Ron Guidry 111

T15 Mike Witt 109

T15 Rich Dotson 109

T15 Rick Rhoden 109

T18 Dan Petry 107

T18 Scott McGregor 107

T18 Dennis Martinez 107

T18 Frank Tanana 107

T18 Don Sutton 107

I do agree that the first ballot thing is overdone, at the end of the day you are either in or out. I was just shocked Frobby included Schilling as I think he will have to wait a bit.

[DrungoHazewood]

I wasn't counting relief pitchers Drungo, Mike was a starter so his peer group is starting pitchers.

You said the "top pitchers of the decade" I know wins are a crap stat but HOF voters like wins so lets look at the top 10 winners from the '80's.

1 Jack Morris 162

2 Dave Stieb 140

3 Bob Welch 137

T4 Fernando Valenzuela 128

T4 Charlie Hough 128

6 Bert Blyleven 123

7 Nolan Ryan 122

8 Jim Clancy 119

9 Frank Viola 117

10 Rick Sutcliffe 116

See many HOF guys there? Want to look at #11-20?

11 Mike Scott 114

T12 Floyd Bannister 112

T12 Doyle Alexander 112

14 Ron Guidry 111

T15 Mike Witt 109

T15 Rich Dotson 109

T15 Rick Rhoden 109

T18 Dan Petry 107

T18 Scott McGregor 107

T18 Dennis Martinez 107

T18 Frank Tanana 107

T18 Don Sutton 107

I do agree that the first ballot thing is overdone, at the end of the day you are either in or out. I was just shocked Frobby included Schilling as I think he will have to wait a bit.

Like I said, the 80s were a fluke transitional period. If you looked at 1975-85 or 1985-95 or whatever, the quality would look much better.

[ledzepp8]

I don't really get the "Wins don't matter" arguments being made in this thread. When you're looking at a 15+ year pitching career, clearly wins matter.

When you're looking at 1-2 seasons, they really don't. A pitcher isn't going to Rick Helling his way to 250+ wins, he's going to do it because he was a pretty damn good pitcher. Now Moyer is a little bit of a different story because he's pitched for so long.