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O'S may return to the GG defense of the 70's


wildcard

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Can I have some of whatever drugs you are taking?

Hardy is solid. Belanger was one of the best ever to play the game.

Andino looks solid so far. Brooks was the best of all time, by far.

Jones is controversial. Blair was indisputably spectacular.

Adams is shaky. Johnson was very solid, Grich was excellent and very underrated.

Reimold is a liability in LF. Buford was solid.

Reynolds seems fine at 1B. Boog was solid; good hands but limited range.

I might like Markakis better than Frank as a defensive RF, and Wieters is certainly spectacular behind the dish.

I'd rate the current O's defensive alignment as average at best.

Yup...I'm surprised there are four more pages after this to be honest.

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Interesting that the O's probably have more guys in the running for GG this year then they have since the mid 90s.

Wieters, Jones and Hardy have to be in the conversation for GG this year

In the mid 90s it was Alomar, Ripken, Palmiero and Mussina were in the running.

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Interesting that the O's probably have more guys in the running for GG this year then they have since the mid 90s.

Wieters, Jones and Hardy have to be in the conversation for GG this year

In the mid 90s it was Alomar, Ripken, Palmiero and Mussina were in the running.

If Jones is in the conversation, it just confirms how awful the award is.

BTW, Drungo is right. DE has the Orioles as the worst in the league.

And you want to talk about right now? What are you talking about time period wise? A few games?

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The only Oriole who has any business being in the conversation for a GG is Wieters. That's it. Looked at most charitably, Hardy might be a little bit above average, but he's no Gold Glover. (Then again, neither is Jeter, so by that standard absolutely anyone can win the award.) Jones is well below average in center.

I think it would be hilarious if the team with the worst defensive efficiency in the league, a last-place team at that, somehow walked away with three Gold Gloves.

Giving Adam Jones the Gold Glove for defense in center would be like giving Felix Pie the Hank Aaron award as the best hitter in the American League.

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Interesting that the O's probably have more guys in the running for GG this year then they have since the mid 90s.

Wieters, Jones and Hardy have to be in the conversation for GG this year

In the mid 90s it was Alomar, Ripken, Palmiero and Mussina were in the running.

That helps to highlight that GG voters are utterly out of touch, and that Gold Gloves are connected to defensive ability/performance in only coincidental ways.

I don't know if Hardy is a Gold Glover, but he's certainly in the top tier of reliable shortstops in the AL right now.

ktBTH.png

Range factor is subject to a ton of influences that make it completely unreliable, and, well, fielding percentage is fielding percentage and it tells about 1/30th of the story.

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AL Managers voted Jones the second best defensive outfielder at mid season. That would seem to say that Jones will be in the conversation for a GG at year's end.

From the Rawlings Gold Glove site:

The managers and coaches from the Major Leagues are responsible for selecting the winners prior to the conclusion of the regular season. They may not vote for players from their own club and can only vote for players in their own league.

http://www.rawlingsgoldglove.com/history

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Hardy ranks sixth in the AL in UZR per 150 games, behind Alexei Ramirez, Alcides Escobar, Jhonny Peralta, Brendan Ryan, and Erick Aybar. Markakis ranks sixth among right fielders, behind Nick Swisher, David DeJesus, Carlos Quentin, Torii Hunter, and Jeff Francoeur.

Adam Jones ranks eighth in the AL (next to last among qualifiers) in UZR in center field, behind Jacoby Ellsbury, Peter Bourjos, Austin Jackson, B.J. Upton, Alex Rios, Curtis Granderson and Coco Crisp.

By UZR, none of those three are anywhere near being the best in the league at their positions. Hardy is a bit above average, Markakis is average, and Jones is well below average.

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Just to throw my two cents in.

1B. Reynolds does look good over there

2B Adams. Has a lot to prove. His reputation precedes him

SS Hardy. I think he's better than Izzy was during his time here. Same range, maybe better. Definitely a better arm. I think he's played a GG caliber defense. Belanger was great but I think Hardy's defense is comparable.

3B I won't even do this one

C Wieters is probably as good a defensive catcher as we've had. Great at blocking pitches and excellent at throwing.

LF Reimold has the tools, speed and a strong arm, and yet is still terrible.

CF Jones. I actually thought his rookie year that he was the best since Blair. Why does he look so below average now. Great arm but too many balls fall in, especially deep.

RF Markakis. I think he's the most overrated RF in baseball. Very good arm but overrated. Not in Jeff Francoeur's class despite assists numbers. Nick Markakis is either just plain slow, has a terrible first step, or gets bad reads on balls. He plays a deep RF in a park with a short RF so he does a good job particularly on balls over his head. Does a poor job side to side and short balls, IMO. It seems like years of years of seeing him seemingly running forever to get any fly ball close to the line in RF. On a side note, where Reimold, a RH hitter, makes every groundball a close play at 1B, it seems that Nick gets thrown out by two steps no matter where the groundball is. I know he runs hard and hustles but this goes back to my question about him either being slow or having a terrible first step. I'd love to hear what his times are to 1B out of the LH box. They should be awful.

Excellent two cents. I am surprised at how solid Ryan Adams has looked defensively considering his past reputation. It looks like working with Bordick has done wonders for him.

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.

Aside from the talk about which Orioles are very good/great fielders, Ryan Adams seems to be doing a pretty good job of on-the-job training on defense as of late. Earlier this year, he looked really bad and uncomfortable. He looked like ........ well, like a AAA player that was nervous about having his first shot in the majors. Now, he doesn't look all that bad ....... although, it remains to be seen if he can keep it up (decent fielding) throughout a whole major league season. If we can have good fielders in the other 4 infield positions (C, 1B, 3B, and SS) and if Adams can at least be average on defense and pretty good on offense, that would be a pretty solid bunch.

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Can I have some of whatever drugs you are taking?

Hardy is solid. Belanger was one of the best ever to play the game.

Andino looks solid so far. Brooks was the best of all time, by far.

Jones is controversial. Blair was indisputably spectacular.

Adams is shaky. Johnson was very solid, Grich was excellent and very underrated.

Reimold is a liability in LF. Buford was solid.

Reynolds seems fine at 1B. Boog was solid; good hands but limited range.

I might like Markakis better than Frank as a defensive RF, and Wieters is certainly spectacular behind the dish.

I'd rate the current O's defensive alignment as average at best.

I agree, but Belanger couldn't hit and Blair wasn't Adam Jones with the bat. I would imagine that Reynolds is better than Boog at first. That team was good, but the pitching on that team was very good. Can we have their pitching with either teams defense and our offense + Frank Robinson? If we had Palmer and Frank Robinson on this current team, how much better would we have been? An ace and a masher? Sign me up!

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Just to throw my two cents in.

1B. Reynolds does look good over there

2B Adams. Has a lot to prove. His reputation precedes him

SS Hardy. I think he's better than Izzy was during his time here. Same range, maybe better. Definitely a better arm. I think he's played a GG caliber defense. Belanger was great but I think Hardy's defense is comparable.

3B I won't even do this one

C Wieters is probably as good a defensive catcher as we've had. Great at blocking pitches and excellent at throwing.

LF Reimold has the tools, speed and a strong arm, and yet is still terrible.

CF Jones. I actually thought his rookie year that he was the best since Blair. Why does he look so below average now. Great arm but too many balls fall in, especially deep.

RF Markakis. I think he's the most overrated RF in baseball. Very good arm but overrated. Not in Jeff Francoeur's class despite assists numbers. Nick Markakis is either just plain slow, has a terrible first step, or gets bad reads on balls. He plays a deep RF in a park with a short RF so he does a good job particularly on balls over his head. Does a poor job side to side and short balls, IMO. It seems like years of years of seeing him seemingly running forever to get any fly ball close to the line in RF. On a side note, where Reimold, a RH hitter, makes every groundball a close play at 1B, it seems that Nick gets thrown out by two steps no matter where the groundball is. I know he runs hard and hustles but this goes back to my question about him either being slow or having a terrible first step. I'd love to hear what his times are to 1B out of the LH box. They should be awful.

Nick is overrated by the Orioles broadcasters. He's above average, but not great and not a gold glover. Jones has the ability to be a top 5 defensive cf. I believe his lack of ability to concentrate for a full game hurts his range and is the cause of some of his bonehead plays. I still have hopes for him to get better.

As for comparisons to the seventies, the only player of this squad that is comparable or better is Weiters. As good as Hardy may become, Belanger was a top 5 defensive SS of all time. Hardy isn't comparable to that. Blair is also a top 5 defensive cf of all time. Even if Jones reaches his potential, he'll never be that. Davey Johnson was very good. Not great, not as good as Grich but a good estimate is in the 83 percentile of all second basemen that ever played. FRob was a great defensive right fielder and better than Nick can ever be. Brooks, well, nuff said.

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With Britton of the mound and that defense behind him the O's would win a lot of games. Now if Matusz, Arrieta and the rest of the pitching staff could just raise their games we might have something special happening in Baltimore. Something that guys from the 70's could smile about and say, 'We used to play like that'.

14 years later.. If... maybe... should...could...might...

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