Jake Layman

[Pedro Cerrano]

You know what? I'm gonna bring up Gary, because I can recall tons of threads where any Gary bashing was met with extreme dismissal and wrath amongst those that defended him.

Some of the nastiest things that have been said to me on this board came out of Gary-bashing threads. I've had big-time arguments with SportsGuy, Beaner and VaTech (three posters who I really respect) over Gary Williams.

The fact is, Turgeon is doing in his FIRST FREAKING YEAR what Gary absolutely refused to do for the larger part of his career and that's go out there and get your hands dirty (NOT in a bad way) and RECRUIT.

Maryland has won a national championship, we've been two two final fours and are, in my opinion, the third most prestigious program in the most prestigious basketball conference in the country.

Having that sort of cache you shouldn't have to rely on a bunch of after-thoughts to round out your roster. Kids like Cleare and Layman should WANT to come here. It finally looks like the tide is turning and if it's not I'll gladly eat crow.

But I like what I see so far and a top 10 recruiting class for 2012 would speak volumes about what kind of recruiter Turgeon is and the sort of approach Gary Williams had to recruiting.

[glenn__davis]

You know what? I'm gonna bring up Gary, because I can recall tons of threads where any Gary bashing was met with extreme dismissal and wrath amongst those that defended him.

Some of the nastiest things that have been said to me on this board came out of Gary-bashing threads. I've had big-time arguments with SportsGuy, Beaner and VaTech (three posters who I really respect) over Gary Williams.

And of course, it went the other way as well. Those who did not support Gary were often rude, arrogant, and condescending.

That's why I'm saying, just let it go. Again, no one's going to change anyone's minds. No one's going to be proven right or wrong. I was a big Gary supporter who was ready for him to go by the end, and I'm thrilled it went down the way it did. He left on good terms and is still actively involved in the MD program, as he should be.

[Remember The Alomar]

Gary aside--and I don't mean to get any ones hopes up--but Jerami Grant is retweeting MD fans like crazy.

http://twitter.com/#!/Moomoo25

[glenn__davis]

Gary aside--and I don't mean to get any ones hopes up--but Jerami Grant is retweeting MD fans like crazy.

http://twitter.com/#!/Moomoo25

I seriously do not understand Twitter. It's like reading another language.

Grant would be another nice get, though. Definitely a buzz about the MD program right now, as there should be.

[BaltimoreTerp]

And of course, it went the other way as well. Those who did not support Gary were often rude, arrogant, and condescending.

And most of the complaints about his supporters come from comments in response to those posts. But I guess history is written by the victor, who get to whitewash anything they don't like from the discussion.

[ccbird]

You know what? I'm gonna bring up Gary, because I can recall tons of threads where any Gary bashing was met with extreme dismissal and wrath amongst those that defended him.

Some of the nastiest things that have been said to me on this board came out of Gary-bashing threads. I've had big-time arguments with SportsGuy, Beaner and VaTech (three posters who I really respect) over Gary Williams.

The fact is, Turgeon is doing in his FIRST FREAKING YEAR what Gary absolutely refused to do for the larger part of his career and that's go out there and get your hands dirty (NOT in a bad way) and RECRUIT.

Maryland has won a national championship, we've been two two final fours and are, in my opinion, the third most prestigious program in the most prestigious basketball conference in the country.

Having that sort of cache you shouldn't have to rely on a bunch of after-thoughts to round out your roster. Kids like Cleare and Layman should WANT to come here. It finally looks like the tide is turning and if it's not I'll gladly eat crow.

But I like what I see so far and a top 10 recruiting class for 2012 would speak volumes about what kind of recruiter Turgeon is and the sort of approach Gary Williams had to recruiting.

Yeah, I mean I think most MD fans have always respected and appreciated Gary and what he meant to the program. That's never going to change but people we're bashed on here for accurately pointing out that Gary wasn't doing a crucial part of his job very well at all. And it wasn't even that he wasn't doing it well it was that he had no desire to do it at all. Plain and simple, he hated what college recruiting had become over the last decade. He refused to bend in his ways at all and it hurt this program. No one should get a free pass for half assing their job.

[glenn__davis]

And most of the complaints about his supporters come from comments in response to those posts. But I guess history is written by the victor, who get to whitewash anything they don't like from the discussion.

The problem is that in this case there are no victors. No one's going to come out right or wrong. It's all a matter of a opinion. So we'll just keep having the same tired debate...

[BaltimoreTerp]

That's never going to change but people we're bashed on here for accurately pointing out that Gary wasn't doing a crucial part of his job very well at all.

And people were bashed for that bashing. And for far less aggressive discussion. So I don't want to hear it. You guys got what you wanted, congratulations. All anyone can do now is hope you all were right.

[ccbird]

And people were bashed for that bashing. And for far less aggressive discussion. So I don't want to hear it. You guys got what you wanted, congratulations. All anyone can do now is hope you all were right.

I don't think there is any doubt we were right when it comes to recruiting. Now, ultimately that has to translate to wins on the court but I'll take my chances with superior talent.

[mweb]

I don't think there is any doubt we were right when it comes to recruiting. Now, ultimately that has to translate to wins on the court but I'll take my chances with superior talent.

Yet I don't think there was a group on the other side of what you were right about. Gary supporters including myself mostly recognized that he wasn't recruiting as well as he should have, although his recruiting wasn't as bad as some made it out to be and was improving. We just didn't think a guy who had done so much for MD and was still having some level of success should be fired.

[ccbird]

Yet I don't think there was a group on the other side of what you were right about. Gary supporters including myself mostly recognized that he wasn't recruiting as well as he should have, although his recruiting wasn't as bad as some made it out to be and was improving. We just didn't think a guy who had done so much for MD and was still having some level of success should be fired.

Yeah, people were recognizing it but still defended it and made excuses for him. And his recruiting pretty much was as bad as it was made out to be for a 3 or 4 year stretch. While very critical of his recruiting, I never advocated firing him. Firing him was not an option and would have hurt not only the program but the University. I was just waiting for him to retire because I knew the program could be better with fresh blood.

[ccbird]

As usual, people just going out of their way to dis Gary Williams.

See, I can play that game too.

My point is - just let it go. Neither side is going to change their mind. The Gary Williams era, for better or worse, is over. The Turgeon era has begun. Rather than bring up Gary in every thread, let's just look forward at this point.

You know whats ironic. The first person to mention Gary in this thread was a self proclaimed Gary defender.

[mweb]

While very critical of his recruiting, I never advocated firing him. I just was waiting for him to retire because I knew the program could be better with fresh blood. Oh, and his recruiting pretty much was as bad as it was made out to be for a 3 or 4 year stretch.

I think his recruiting was turning around of late and his recruiting right after the title was better than some give him credit for (results were disappointing), but yeah, it wasn't nearly as good as it should have been.

I just don't see any reason why people would be gloating about the Gary issue after a signing of a guy ranked around 50th. The main reason being other than this not being that great of a get is the aforementioned concurrence by most Gary supporters that Gary's recruiting was lacking and a new coach would very likely do better in that regard.

Now there was plenty of debate about whether a new coach would likely be better for the program. We are far from being able to accurately answer that, but things look promising.

Regardless of what happens I don't think the people including you who simply had my position that he shouldn't be fired, can not be shown to be wrong imo.

[Lucky Jim]

Helena Handbasket. Good news derailed by the usual.

[AgentOrange]

I seriously do not understand Twitter. It's like reading another language.

Grant would be another nice get, though. Definitely a buzz about the MD program right now, as there should be.

It took me like 2 months it get used to it. Now its pretty cool