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Very Interesting NY Daily News Article about Angelos and Showalter

calhof2007

By calhof2007
in Orioles Talk

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Nothing really new in here. What I don't understand, if I am reading this correctly, is why the player development department should have a direct line to Angelos at all.
Coughstockstillcough.

I said it like 3 years ago...He needs to go..He needed to go then, he needs to go now.

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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It gets in the way of his agenda of bashing MacPhail 24-7. Which is pointless, at this stage, since it is completely obvious that MacPhail is gone at the end of this season.

Angelos isn't the only problem and isn't the main reason the team has failed for the past 4 years. He's part of the problem but MacPhail and the way he ran Baseball Ops, and the people he put in charge and gave chances to are the issue.

Peter Angelos didn't hire Lee MacPhail who oversees probably the worst professional scouting in the majors, Peter Angelos didn't give Dave Trembley too many chances after it was clear he wasn't the guy. Peter Angelos didn't sign Garrett Atkins, Mike Gonzalez, Ty Wigginton, Cesar Izturis, Steve Trachsel, Adam Eaton etc.

Peter Angelos didn't fail to address the SS position after Tejada was traded in 2008, which forced three no hit SS on the roster for lack of a better option and as a result screwed up the roster management.

Andy MacPhail did all these things. You can't just make him a victim. Did he have restrictions? Of course, but he defended the owner every chance he got, and he never walked away. He could have always quit if he didn't get do to what he wanted to do.

If you want to blame Angelos, blame him for hiring Andy MacPhail in the first place and giving him the authority over baseball operations and allowing the team to sink to its lowest point in franchise history. That is where he deserves blame.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Angelos isn't the only problem and isn't the main reason the team has failed for the past 4 years. He's part of the problem but MacPhail and the way he ran Baseball Ops, and the people he put in charge and gave chances to are the issue.

Peter Angelos didn't hire Lee MacPhail who is oversees probably the worst professional scouting in the majors, Peter Angelos didn't give Dave Trembley too many chances after it was clear he wasn't the guy. Peter Angelos didn't sign Garrett Atkins, Mike Gonzalez, Ty Wigginton, Cesar Izturis, Steve Trachsel, Adam Eaton etc.

Peter Angelos didn't fail to address the SS position after Tejada was traded in 2008, which forced three no hit SS on the roster for lack of a better option and as a result screwed up the roster management.

Andy MacPhail did all these things. You can't just make him a victim. Did he have restrictions? Of course, but he defended the owner every chance he got, and he never walked away. He could have always quit if he didn't get do to what he wanted to do.

If you want to blame Angelos, blame him for hiring Andy MacPhail in the first place and giving him the authority over baseball operations. That is where he deserves blame.

Yes he is.
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clapdiddy Hangout Grand Counsel

clapdiddy

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I pray that the next GM will be more successful so you can make the argument "I told you so." Unfortunately, I am not holding my breath.

GM: Pat Gillick Owner: Peter Angelos

GM: Frank Wren Owner: Peter Angelos

GM: Syd Thrift Owner: Peter Angelos

GM: Beattie/Duquette Owner: Peter Angelos

GM: Flanagan Owner: Peter Angelos

GM: MacPhail Owner: Peter Angelos

Seems that there is a familiar pattern here....:D;)

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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I agree with you that AM was poor. I have been saying that for years now, before you were.

That being said, he is still hamstrung by our joke of an owner and PA is still the #1 problem.

If this article was about AM and not PA, you would have made 15 posts in this thread already.

You would eat it up.

I don't understand why its so hard for some people to see that Angelos is the real issue. Was MacPhail a good GM? Who knows, really. PA could make any GM look like a buffoon. I don't think MacPhail is as good or as bad as we think. Its hard to make a decision on it when you have a guy who has been hamstrung, and will not throw the owner under the bus and say what the real issues are with the franchise. Maybe Andy will write his memoirs after he leaves and we'll know for sure. lol.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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If I chopped off your legs, you'd be a lousy marathon runner.

Careful, Sammy. One could point out the fact that wheelchair marathoners actually complete the race faster than we actual runners do. How about, "If someone had chopped off Muhammad Ali's arms, he would not have been such a great boxer." ???

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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MacPhail failed in Chicago where there were no Yankees or Red Sox to contend with.

He is not a good GM and his time has likely passed him by. But we'll never know how much of the last 4 years is truly his vision, good or bad.

Right. AM's history over the last 8-10 years is poor. He isn't very good at his job.

But that is a seperate issue from saying he is the #1 problem with the organization. That answer is PA and it has been for the last decade and a half or so.

Trea has been saying that AM could do whatever he wanted...Well, that quote says that isn't true.

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SammyBirdland Hangout Grand Counsel

SammyBirdland

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How about, "If someone had chopped off Muhammad Ali's arms, he would not have been such a great boxer." ???

Hmm, that might not be a good analogy either. I don't think Ali really needed his arms to win.

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cu2nKcfMS9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Right. AM's history over the last 8-10 years is poor. He isn't very good at his job.

But that is a seperate issue from saying he is the #1 problem with the organization. That answer is PA and it has been for the last decade and a half or so.

Trea has been saying that AM could do whatever he wanted...Well, that quote says that isn't true.

Angelos has been the #1 problem up until 4 years ago. Then he went hands off and hired MacPhail who took his place as the #1 problem.

Had he been more hands on, perhaps we wouldn't be this bad...

MacPhail was the wrong person to hand autonomy to and set this organization back 3 years with his philosophy.

The Orioles were actually better when they were spending money on mediocre veterans and not relying on their farm and that method wasn't successful or correct either.

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Austin Veteran All-Star

Austin

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Angelos isn't the only problem and isn't the main reason the team has failed for the past 4 years.

Yeah, things were awesome 5, 10 years ago. Remember all those playoff runs we made? Too bad MacPhail had to come along and hold our owner hostage. Things were going so well before he got here!

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stef Major Leaguer

stef

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Actually, there has been a fair amount of turnover in the player development area over the past four years. Maybe the right people haven't been hired (!) but that's another issue. The only constant name over the last five years, other than a few coaches, is Tripp Norton—maybe it's all his fault.

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OFFNY Hangout Grand Counsel

OFFNY

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Hmm, that might not be a good analogy either. I don't think Ali really needed his arms to win.

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cu2nKcfMS9A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I knew that you were going to say that, Sammy. :) There was once a story that the great Willie Pep actually won a round without throwing a single punch. :eek: It turned out to be a myth. Still, I'll bet it wasn't far from the truth.

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170136

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NewMarketSean Hangout Grand Counsel

NewMarketSean

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Trea has been saying that AM could do whatever he wanted...Well, that quote says that isn't true.

Jtrea has just been added to my ignore list. I suggest everyone who grows tired of him to do the same.

MacPhail tried to fire Stockstill shortly after AM was hired and was told he couldn't. How is that "AM doing whatever he wanted?"

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