Very Interesting NY Daily News Article about Angelos and Showalter

[Austin]

He's been the #1 problem up until 4 years ago. Then he went hands off and hired MacPhail who took his place as the #1 problem.

Had he been more hands on, perhaps we wouldn't be this bad...

MacPhail was the wrong person to hand autonomy to.

Don't you think Angelos might have hired him specifically because he is the kind of GM he is? You think Pete is chomping at the bit, ready to unload his money on free agents and Andy has been telling him no? I always assumed AM was hired specifically because he believed in building a team on a limited budget.

[Frobby]

Right. AM's history over the last 8-10 years is poor. He isn't very good at his job.

But that is a seperate issue from saying he is the #1 problem with the organization. That answer is PA and it has been for the last decade and a half or so.

Trea has been saying that AM could do whatever he wanted...Well, that quote says that isn't true.

Honestly, can we just stop arguing about this? Maybe JTrea's incessant posting on this topic was relevant when there was some uncertainly whether MacPhail would be here next year. Now that it is perfectly clear that he is gone, we may as well be debating whether Jim Beattie was a good GM or not.

The real issue is, what needs to happen now, other than changing the GM? That is all that matters. And will Angelos hire someone who makes it happen?

I do have this question for JTrea: Buck Showalter has been here since last August. If he was given say over how the farm system operates, which you seem to believe, why wasn't anything changed last winter? The Stockstills and Brian Graham (minor league field coordinator) were all here before MacPhail arrived.

[SammyBirdland]

Don't you think Pete might have hired him specifically because he is the kind of GM he is? You think Pete is chomping at the bit, ready to unload his money on free agents and Andy has been telling him no? I always assumed AM was hired specifically because he believed in building a team on a limited budget.

Wait, whose fault does that make it?

[Sports Guy]

Angelos has been the #1 problem up until 4 years ago. Then he went hands off and hired MacPhail who took his place as the #1 problem.

Had he been more hands on, perhaps we wouldn't be this bad...

MacPhail was the wrong person to hand autonomy to and set this organization back 3 years with his philosophy.

He isn't hands off, don't you get that? Did you read that article and that one enormously important quote? Not to mention, some of the other things we have heard for a while now, including stuff Tony wrote last year.

[ShaneDawg85]

There's so much I could say to this garbage, but it's just not worth it anymore.

[stef]

Coughstockstillcough.

I said it like 3 years ago...He needs to go..He needed to go then, he needs to go now.

John Stockstill only took over player development from his brother Dave in March of 2010. At the time it was seen as an indication of McPhail's autonomy. Published reports indicated David was the problem and that he was close to PA (perhaps why he was reassigned and not fired)

[DrungoHazewood]

I just want to know how much rope Trea is going to give John Hart when he's hired to replace MacPhail. I predict it'll be just up to the point where Hart drags out his "no team can compete with ARod's salary" quotes from '03 to justify not giving Fielder the 8/200 deal it'll take to get him in black and orange.

It's no longer amazing that one person could look at more than a dozen years of failure through GM after GM, manager after manager, and pin the failure on Andy MacPhail alone. Just a little weird and sad. Around the margins there is blame to be distributed, but the central cause of the demise of the Baltimore Orioles is clearly, obviously, and unambiguously Peter Angelos.

I'll probably live to regret this, but where's Sapper when you need him?

[stef]

I do have this question for JTrea: Buck Showalter has been here since last August. If he was given say over how the farm system operates, which you seem to believe, why wasn't anything changed last winter? The Stockstills and Brian Graham (minor league field coordinator) were all here before MacPhail arrived.

Maybe you meant Norton, Graham came on in October of 2007. John Stockstill had no player development role until the spring of 2010; his previous roles were pro and then international scouting.

[LookitsPuck]

Andy MacPhail isn't a great general manager, but he's also not a poor one. He's about average.

That said, Angelos is a terrible owner.

[OsLuvrInKy]

Angelos isn't the only problem and isn't the main reason the team has failed for the past 14 years. He's part of the problem but MacPhail and the way he ran Baseball Ops, and the people he put in charge and gave chances to are the issue.

Peter Angelos didn't hire Lee MacPhail who oversees probably the worst professional scouting in the majors, Peter Angelos didn't give Dave Trembley too many chances after it was clear he wasn't the guy. Peter Angelos didn't sign Garrett Atkins, Mike Gonzalez, Ty Wigginton, Cesar Izturis, Steve Trachsel, Adam Eaton etc.

Peter Angelos didn't fail to address the SS position after Tejada was traded in 2008, which forced three no hit SS on the roster for lack of a better option and as a result screwed up the roster management.

Andy MacPhail did all these things. You can't just make him a victim. Did he have restrictions? Of course, but he defended the owner every chance he got, and he never walked away. He could have always quit if he didn't get do to what he wanted to do.

If you want to blame Angelos, blame him for hiring Andy MacPhail in the first place and giving him the authority over baseball operations and allowing the team to sink to its lowest point in franchise history. That is where he deserves blame.

Fixed that for ya Trea. And sorry dude but you are wrong. Angelo's is the biggest problem this team has.

[Fan4Life]

Explains why the last 2 months of last year didn't show up this year. Buck has not been the same.Now we may know why.

[JTrea81]

I do have this question for JTrea: Buck Showalter has been here since last August. If he was given say over how the farm system operates, which you seem to believe, why wasn't anything changed last winter? The Stockstills and Brian Graham (minor league field coordinator) were all here before MacPhail arrived.

He had to play nice with MacPhail IMO. Then after another offseason when they didn't get their guy (VMart) and when the Orioles started to tank, Showalter made his move to get Angelos on his page instead of MacPhail's

His comments about international scouting pretty much fly in the face of MacPhail's philosophy.

MacPhail's problem was he couldn't win in spite of the restrictions. So the Stockstills make the minor leagues an issue? Don't depend on the minor leagues then - change your philosophy and spend money on the ML team, something Angelos has said he's willing to do. MacPhail refused to adapt his philosophy to the situation and opportunity the Orioles had. The Orioles had to depend on their minor leagues for talent for his plan to work, and it just wasn't going to happen.

[JTrea81]

I just want to know how much rope Trea is going to give John Hart when he's hired to replace MacPhail. I predict it'll be just up to the point where Hart drags out his "no team can compete with ARod's salary" quotes from '03 to justify not giving Fielder the 8/200 deal it'll take to get him in black and orange.

It's no longer amazing that one person could look at more than a dozen years of failure through GM after GM, manager after manager, and pin the failure on Andy MacPhail alone. Just a little weird and sad. Around the margins there is blame to be distributed, but the central cause of the demise of the Baltimore Orioles is clearly, obviously, and unambiguously Peter Angelos.

I'll probably live to regret this, but where's Sapper when you need him?

If the Orioles make some huge moves and/or spend a ton of money this offseason, will people be willing to admit MacPhail was the problem?

I'm willing to be less critical of MacPhail's tenure if we have the same old offseason we usually do.

[scOtt]

[SilentJames]

I always take the Daily News with a grain of salt - but did anyone not see this coming?

We all know that PA is still in the background, it was never a question of IF he meddled just "how much." the Player Development tip is the big thing, finally there is too much chatter on the internet about this side of things and stuff is finally starting to come out about who the real perpetrators are.

As these details emerge (yes details SG) we should get a more complete picture.

But PA needs to go there is simply no denying that.