Very Interesting NY Daily News Article about Angelos and Showalter

[DrungoHazewood]

If the Orioles make some huge moves and/or spend a ton of money this offseason, will people be willing to admit MacPhail was the problem?

I'm willing to be less critical of MacPhail's tenure if we have the same old offseason we usually do.

Either they're going to have the same old offseason, or they've decided they really, really don't give a crap about the team in 2-3 years. I'm not going to be impressed if they spend $100s of millions on free agents without fixing the underlying issues that really caused the collapse of the franchise. Spending money has never been the problem. Many teams have won with lesser payrolls than the Orioles. Angelos is the reason they won't invest in what matters.

[foxfield]

If the Orioles make some huge moves and/or spend a ton of money this offseason, will people be willing to admit MacPhail was the problem?

I'm willing to be less critical of MacPhail's tenure if we have the same old offseason we usually do.

Well this really is the crux of your arguement no? MacPhail, did not sign Tex nor make any other huge moves, spending a ton of money. And this, and this alone is the reason that the Orioles are where they are, because MacPhail was given full autonomy, well right up until Buck was hired and then Buck has been in charge, and all of the good moves are his, and the bad ones...well he didn't override because he is choosing to play nice. That is basically it right?

There is so much broken here, I am just glad that AM will go. Hopefully Buck will at least keep his track record intact.

[sangar]

The author exposed his agenda when he cited Flanigan's suicide as evidence of PA's incompetence. That sort of exaggerated bias loses my interest quickly.

[Birds of B'more]

Angelos isn't the only problem and isn't the main reason the team has failed for the past 4 years.

You're right, Angelos is not the main reason for 4 years of failure. He's the main reason for 14 years of failure.

Really man, like Frobby says it's finally time for you to let it go. MacPhail's days as GM are obviously coming to an end. What on earth will you do with yourself then?

[LookinUp]

Trea...I sure hope you're right.

However...PA hired AM. PA was his boss. PA sets the tone for an entire organization. PA is the constant.

I'm an optimist. I believe that PA could fall into a GM that leads us to win. I really don't expect it though.

[TGO]

The author exposed his agenda when he cited Flanigan's suicide as evidence of PA's incompetence. That sort of exaggerated bias loses my interest quickly.

I don't think anyone is taking a whole lot from this article. We already knew 99.9% of the stuff in it.

But yeah, he also acts as if a switch was flipped when Angelos bought the team, but in reality EBW's tenure put us in a pretty bad position in the late 80s. He tried desperately to win with FAs so he could have a winner before he died. And our farm system hasn't been any good since the late 70s.

That being said, the main idea is right: Angelos is holding us back, almost to the point that it doesn't matter who the GM or manager are.

[OrangeJerseys]

This thread is no place for logic and reason.

[byrdz]

If PA isn't the root of all Orioles problems then I guess we can expect him to make the right decision for the next GM. I'm so excited!

[TonySoprano]

If PA isn't the root of all Orioles problems then I guess we can expect him to make the right decision for the next GM. I'm so excited!

[Tony-OH]

LOL...I guess so.

Jtrea, do you understand why this is a bash PA article? BECAUSE HE IS THE #1 FREAKING PROBLEM AND NOTHING ELSE IS CLOSE!

He is, but MacPhail's style is no help either.

[clutch2113]

John Stockstill only took over player development from his brother Dave in March of 2010. At the time it was seen as an indication of McPhail's autonomy. Published reports indicated David was the problem and that he was close to PA (perhaps why he was reassigned and not fired)

If David was the problem, and he is now in charge of International Scouting - wouldn't it stand to reason that this is part of the reason that AM has not focused on International signings?

[TGO]

If David was the problem, and he is now in charge of International Scouting - wouldn't it stand to reason that this is part of the reason that AM has not focused on International signings?

AM has given several interviews saying he doesn't think it's worth it to spend a lot of money on international signings. So no, I don't think you can blame it all on Dave Stockstill. That said, the int'l department has been completely dysfunctional for a long time and I doubt they're making anything more than incremental progress.

[LookitsPuck]

If the Orioles make some huge moves and/or spend a ton of money this offseason, will people be willing to admit MacPhail was the problem?

I'm willing to be less critical of MacPhail's tenure if we have the same old offseason we usually do.

In regards to Tex:

FACT: MacPhail offered Tex a contract of 7/$150 for a yearly salary of $21.4 million.

FACT: Tex signed with the Yankees for 8/$180 for a yearly salary of $22.5 million.

FACT: The Angels, Nationals, Red Sox, and Orioles were all gunning for Tex.

FACT: Tex used the other ballclubs to get a contract with the Yankees as high as he could, so he could make the most money AND play on the team he's always wanted

In regards to VMart:

FACT: The Orioles offered VMart a 4/$48 deal

FACT: The Tigers got him for 4/$50. Yes, only $2 million difference over 4 years.

Your constant hating of MacPhail for not landing Tex or VMart is just ridiculous, fwiw.

And when MacPhail doesn't come back, and the Orioles don't land Fielder (or any other big name free agents), it'll be same ole, same ole.

Angelos is the problem, man.

[Gurgi]

I am tired of this argument. I grow weary of ever thinking we will be better. I think I am growing to accept the fact that I was lucky to have seen the greatest of the Oriole teams and they will never be a factor in baseball again.

[weams]

Jtrea has just been added to my ignore list. I suggest everyone who grows tired of him to do the same.

MacPhail tried to fire Stockstill shortly after AM was hired and was told he couldn't. How is that "AM doing whatever he wanted?"

There is a story there I hear. And the next GM will not be able to remove either of them. He should just pay them to stay home. It is Peter's team and I am sad to say that the next owner will be part of the current problem as well.