John Heyman : Hearing John Hart as a possibility for GM

[JTrea81]

My conversation was mostly 2nd hand with a good friend of his, so I didn't think to ask details like what he thought of the staff, but I did get the impression that he would want to tear things all the way down and do them the RIGHT way. I don't know if that includes the coaching staff or not, but I know it referenced scouting/player dev.

I doubt Showalter would allow his own firing or his coaches so if Cashman wants him gone or certain members of his staff gone, I doubt Peter Angelos would go along with that.

[allstar1579]

I doubt Showalter would allow his own firing or his coaches so if Cashman wants him gone or certain members of his staff gone, I doubt Peter Angelos would go along with that.

Haha, well who in the world WOULD allow their own firing?

If Cashman came in, it would be with a plan in place before anything was agreed to, either PA would agree to let him get rid of anyone he wants including Buck, OR Brian would be ok with keeping Buck around. He's not going to take the job to be micromanaged though, either they will be on the same page, or he won't work here.

Along those same lines, the Stockstill thing is the same kind of situation, but I feel like it's going to be like Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato, at some point you have to realize your "friends" are the reason your team is suffering and you let them go. I imagine with all the press it's gotten in the past year PA wouldn't be as opposed to making a move, if he doesn't it's just really obvious that he wants to play "old boy clubhouse" and not really improve things.

[wildcard]

I'd be astounded if he is staying. He's been absolutely mute since the trade deadline, and he has been so noncomittal about coming back from the very first day of the season.

So if Cashman or Hart becomes the GM and we still don't land Fielder, how will JTrea81 spin that?

I am with olehippi. I am not convinced he is going either. He might but 'its not over till its over.'

Maybe MacPhail is speaking through his trades.

Uehara for projected starter Tommy Hunter and starting 3B Chris Davis.

Nick Green for lefty reliever Zach Phillips.

Gonzo for hard thowing reliever Pedro Strop

Looks like MacPhail and Buck are building an inexpensive pen like Tampa with Johnson, Phillips, Strop, Patton, Eyre, Jaku and Bergy.

And if Reimold and Davis play well the rest of the year they may fill LF and 3B.

Hunter joining high ceiling Britton, Matusz, Arrieta plus Guthrie and maybe Simon.

MacPhail may look pretty good before its over. The vast majority of the O's roster being under 30. The job in the off season could be to get deeper so they can withstand injuries.

[Frobby]

Maybe MacPhail is speaking through his trades.

Uehara for projected starter Tommy Hunter and starting 3B Chris Davis.

Nick Green for lefty reliever Zach Phillips.

Gonzo for hard thowing reliever Pedro Strop

Looks like MacPhail and Buck are building an inexpensive pen like Tampa with Johnson, Phillips, Strop, Patton, Eyre, Jaku and Bergy.

And if Reimold and Davis play well the rest of the year they may fill LF and 3B.

Hunter joining high ceiling Britton, Matusz, Arrieta plus Guthrie and maybe Simon.

MacPhail may look pretty good before its over.

I personally think MacPhail did a very nice job last offseason and during this one. My bigger problems with him have to do with what goes on at the minor league/player development level. But I wouldn't be that surprised if our pitching was much better next year, for reasons having nothing to do with our next GM. If that happens, will anyone give MacPhail credit? I doubt it.

[allstar1579]

I personally think MacPhail did a very nice job last offseason and during this one. My bigger problems with him have to do with what goes on at the minor league/player development level. But I wouldn't be that surprised if our pitching was much better next year, for reasons having nothing to do with our next GM. If that happens, will anyone give MacPhail credit? I doubt it.

Yeah but we aren't talking about him being fired, it's MacPhail that doesn't seem to want to come back. I think he's done a pretty good job outside of draft/international spending.

And you're right, they probably won't give AM credit, that will go to whoever the new pitching coach we go get will be

[El Gordo]

Yeah but we aren't talking about him being fired, it's MacPhail that doesn't seem to want to come back. I think he's done a pretty good job outside of draft/international spending.

And you're right, they probably won't give AM credit, that will go to whoever the new pitching coach we go get will be

I have had no problems with his drafting. International spending and player development is pretty much out of his hands, because of PA IMo. So I wouldn't hold him accountabel totally for that. I think he is not coming back because Buck has convinced PA to take a more win now approach than AM is comfortable with.

[allstar1579]

I have had no problems with his drafting. International spending and player development is pretty much out of his hands, because of PA IMo. So I wouldn't hold him accountabel totally for that. I think he is not coming back because Buck has convinced PA to take a more win now approach than AM is comfortable with.

His draft picks I can't blame on him, they are Jordan's selections, but my personal feeling is that if you aren't going to trade for talent and aren't going to sign worthwhile talent, you BETTER be drafting talent. Since they weren't doing the other two, they should have been outspending everyone and grabbing as much dropping talent as they had picks. I know they've had fewer picks than other teams, but I feel like it was AM's job to get PA to pony up the extra cash in the draft to be able to sign guys like AJ Cole when they fall.

The international area is solely on him, he's admitted that he doesn't feel like it's a good use of resources, but since you aren't getting players the expensive way, you need to find some other way to catch up to the other teams in the division. He's a throwback to the 80's and the ways of doing things then, but the game has evolved since then and the teams that have embraced that are the ones being successful.

This offseason will be very telling if things are finally going to change or if it's more of the same.

[El Gordo]

His draft picks I can't blame on him, they are Jordan's selections, but my personal feeling is that if you aren't going to trade for talent and aren't going to sign worthwhile talent, you BETTER be drafting talent. Since they weren't doing the other two, they should have been outspending everyone and grabbing as much dropping talent as they had picks. I know they've had fewer picks than other teams, but I feel like it was AM's job to get PA to pony up the extra cash in the draft to be able to sign guys like AJ Cole when they fall.

The international area is solely on him, he's admitted that he doesn't feel like it's a good use of resources, but since you aren't getting players the expensive way, you need to find some other way to catch up to the other teams in the division. He's a throwback to the 80's and the ways of doing things then, but the game has evolved since then and the teams that have embraced that are the ones being successful.

This offseason will be very telling if things are finally going to change or if it's more of the same.

Message board cliches, He has improved our International situation over what it was prior. He can't say publicly what the situation is, but suffice it to say when he came here we had nothing to speak of and PA had a 20K liimit on spending for Latin players. I think he has done the best he can under the limitations he has been given. He has said he isn't for spending 4-5M on one 16 YO who is only being seen in tryout exhibitions. That doesn't mean he is not for spending 300K+, for a bunch of them, were he allowed too. All this out of date stuff, is more baloney. If Pat Gillick were available we'd be happy to have him and he's older than AM.

[allstar1579]

Message board cliches, He has improved our International situation over what it was prior. He can't say publicly what the situation is, but suffice it to say when he came here we had nothing to speak of and PA had a 20K liimit on spending for Latin players. I think he has done the best he can under the limitations he has been given. He has said he isn't for spending 4-5M on one 16 YO who is only being seen in tryout exhibitions. That doesn't mean he is not for spending 300K+, for a bunch of them, were he allowed too. All this out of date stuff, is more baloney. If Pat Gillick were available we'd be happy to have him and he's older than AM.

And how do you know this? If he were for spending 300k on a bunch of them he would have done more it in the past 4 years. He has said that he doesn't know the effectiveness of signing the expensive IFA (it's around 30-40%) and one of his assistants DID in fact do such a study, so how did he know nothing about it? I don't care that you aren't signing Sano, or pitchers out there for $6m per, but teams like SEA are KILLING it internationally for the same money we say we are willing to spend. Why them and not us???

[mweb]

His draft picks I can't blame on him, they are Jordan's selections, but my personal feeling is that if you aren't going to trade for talent and aren't going to sign worthwhile talent, you BETTER be drafting talent. Since they weren't doing the other two, they should have been outspending everyone and grabbing as much dropping talent as they had picks. I know they've had fewer picks than other teams, but I feel like it was AM's job to get PA to pony up the extra cash in the draft to be able to sign guys like AJ Cole when they fall.

The international area is solely on him, he's admitted that he doesn't feel like it's a good use of resources, but since you aren't getting players the expensive way, you need to find some other way to catch up to the other teams in the division. He's a throwback to the 80's and the ways of doing things then, but the game has evolved since then and the teams that have embraced that are the ones being successful.

This offseason will be very telling if things are finally going to change or if it's more of the same.

I'm not sure how you can put all of that on AM when it's pretty clear to me that PA is not an owner that is willing to invest heavily in the draft/international market. Maybe an extremely influential GM can change his mind.

[mweb]

It would have to be a pretty impressive Plan B including one of Ramirez and Wright and possibly Darvish.

Or a huge blowup of the team with Guthrie, Hardy, Reynolds, Markakis, Jones, Wieters etc gone.

They have to go all-in for something this offseason or I'm done. This team has been hemorrhaging fans so they've got to show them including me that they are serious about putting a competitive team on the field in 2012 or completely gutting this core to win in 2013-2014. If they don't care about winning, I will no longer care about them and invest that time elsewhere.

I want to see exciting Orioles baseball next season, be it a bunch of talented youngsters, or a veteran team in their prime ready to get to the playoffs.

I'd much rather see winning baseball, but I'd stick around as well to see what a complete blow up would look like.

If they half-ass anything though, forget about it.

Well VaTech may be rooting for an in-between off-season.

[allstar1579]

I'm not sure how you can put all of that on AM when it's pretty clear to me that PA is not an owner that is willing to invest heavily in the draft/international market. Maybe an extremely influential GM can change his mind.

That's my point, if he does have the kind of influence he's supposed to have on PA, then he should be changing it. He's said that he doesn't think international spending is the best use of resources because he thinks it's a crap shoot. I don't blame it all on him, but if you aren't part of the solution...

[scOtt]

I'm not sure how you can put all of that on AM when it's pretty clear to me that PA is not an owner that is willing to invest heavily in the draft/international market. Maybe an extremely influential GM can change his mind.

I don't think you can blame either one. IMO they're in complete agreement on it.

[mweb]

That's my point, if he does have the kind of influence he's supposed to have on PA, then he should be changing it. He's said that he doesn't think international spending is the best use of resources because he thinks it's a crap shoot. I don't blame it all on him, but if you aren't part of the solution...

What do you mean by supposed to have? I don't think he's supposed to have any great influence on PA.

I don't agree with what he's said about international spending and that may be what he really believes or it may just be a way of justifying the limits on speding that PA imposes.

I would love a GM that is all-in regarding the draft and international spending, but I tend to doubt that GM would be allowed to spend as much as he'd like in those markets.

[allstar1579]

What do you mean by supposed to have? I don't think he's supposed to have any great influence on PA.

I don't agree with what he's said about international spending and that may be what he really believes or it may just be a way of justifying the limits on speding that PA imposes.

I would love a GM that is all-in regarding the draft and international spending, but I tend to doubt that GM would be allowed to spend as much as he'd like in those markets.

All the things being said about Hart were said about AM when he came in. "PA respects him and will give him the freedom to do what he sees fit" yeah...believe it when I see it. A good GM is going to get it across to PA that what he wants to do is never going to build a winning team and is going to be the last 14 years extended indefinitely. Either PA doesn't agree and needs someone to convince him he's wrong, or he doesn't care, in which case we as fans should 100% refuse to attend games and let them put an empty OPACY on sportscenter.