Fangraphs: Hardy's 2011 season was worth $21.3 mm...

[Can_of_corn]

I hate to bring it up again, but I advocated then and still now that we should have traded Hardy at the deadline with a deal to resign him this offseason, ala Bordick a few years ago. We could have gotten at least two quality prospects back in return, and JJ would have gotten his long term deal that he wanted.

Our system is so lacking in prospects, our new leadership has GOT to find a way to infuse more talent in the system, and then to develop it better.

1- We have no idea what offers were on the table.

2-Hardy resigned with the O's for stability, not any huge abiding love of the city or the team. I think it likely that if he had been traded yet again in his young career that signing long term with Baltimore would not be that enticing.

3-He would have cost a 2nd round pick and I am guessing a much heftier contract, thus mitigating the return from the trade.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you get a top young ML player that has 3 or less years of service time.

You wouldn't trade Machado for a guy like Jason Heyward or Justin Upton or someone like that?

I guess, but why would the other team do that? Why would a team trade Justin Upton for someone they hope becomes Justin Upton in 3-4 years? We're talking ridiculously unlikely hypotheticals here.

[Lucky Jim]

I guess, but why would the other team do that? Why would a team trade Justin Upton for someone they hope becomes Justin Upton in 3-4 years? We're talking ridiculously unlikely hypotheticals here.

Much like the scenario where a team trades for Hardy and then wants to re-trade him but all of the interested teams are on his no-trade list.

[AgentOrange]

I guess, but why would the other team do that? Why would a team trade Justin Upton for someone they hope becomes Justin Upton in 3-4 years? We're talking ridiculously unlikely hypotheticals here.

Is it that crazy? To me, I would think teams that can't extend players beyond their initial contract would be looking for these exact deals.

[Sports Guy]

I guess, but why would the other team do that? Why would a team trade Justin Upton for someone they hope becomes Justin Upton in 3-4 years? We're talking ridiculously unlikely hypotheticals here.

Didn't yopu just talk about how valuable a n 18 y/o SS prospect that has always done well in high A is?

So which is it, is he valuable or not?

If he is as valuable as you think, why is it far fetched to think another team thinks the same way as you?

Either way, your original premise was wrong IMO...The carousel never stops.

[Dagger420]

We should have traded him. His value was worth more to us in trade than on the field.

But yes, he was everything those of who wanted to acquired hoped he could be.

I'd have much rather traded Adam Jones. Hardy is a great player and the best shortstop we've had bar none since Ripken.

Jones on the other hand is overrated (no way he should have won MVO), and I'm fairly sure he's relatively unhappy on the east coast and will dart as soon as he's given the chance...

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'd have much rather traded Adam Jones. Hardy is a great player and the best shortstop we've had bar none since Ripken.

Jones on the other hand is overrated (no way he should have won MVO), and I'm fairly sure he's relatively unhappy on the east coast and will dart as soon as he's given the chance...

Ideally, I'd trade (or have already traded) Hardy, Jones and Reynolds as well as some others. Not gonna happen though. Might not be a bad idea to lock up Jones in a team friendly extension now and have the option to deal or keep him.

[DrungoHazewood]

Didn't yopu just talk about how valuable a n 18 y/o SS prospect that has always done well in high A is?

So which is it, is he valuable or not?

If he is as valuable as you think, why is it far fetched to think another team thinks the same way as you?

He's more valuable to the Orioles than to almost any other team because they have to have multiple cheap, homegrown stars to have any chance of competing with much richer teams. If they flip him to a team that wants to build a cheap young core, well, they're idiots, because they're that team.

Either way, your original premise was wrong IMO...The carousel never stops.

Right, with the Orioles it never does. They never develop anything, so they're constantly trying to flip what little they have of value in the hopes that somehow they'll win all of the trades one day and turn 3-4 good players into 8 or 10 prospects who all work out.

[Stotle]

I guess, but why would the other team do that? Why would a team trade Justin Upton for someone they hope becomes Justin Upton in 3-4 years? We're talking ridiculously unlikely hypotheticals here.

Have to disagree here. True, no one would trade Machado-type for Upton-type straight up. But you'd absolutely see a Machado+ for Upton.

[LookitsPuck]

Have to disagree here. True, no one would trade Machado-type for Upton-type straight up. But you'd absolutely see a Machado+ for Upton.

Is this really disagreeing, though?

[Stotle]

Is this really disagreeing, though?

Yeah, I think it is. The answer to Drungo's questions is, "The team would trade Upton for someone they hope becomes Upton because they are also getting other pieces."

The Upton example obviously doesn't work, as a playoff team isn't moving a cornerstone. But a team 2 or 3 years out would move an Upton like talent, potentially.

Of course, Baltimore is 2 or 3 years out, so it probably behooves the org to focus on acquiring more players on Machado's developmental arc, rather than moving Machado.

[LookitsPuck]

I guess I took it as not really disagreeing because you were saying an org. wouldn't trade Upton straight up for Machado. But you did say they would for Machado+. Guess I was nitpicking a wee bit.

[Stotle]

I guess I took it as not really disagreeing because you were saying an org. wouldn't trade Upton straight up for Machado. But you did say they would for Machado+. Guess I was nitpicking a wee bit.

No, I think you are being fair. I guess the question is "What does '+' mean?"

[DrungoHazewood]

Of course, Baltimore is 2 or 3 years out, so it probably behooves the org to focus on acquiring more players on Machado's developmental arc, rather than moving Machado.

Yes, this. If there's any team that needs to be flipping an established, more expensive player for Machado+ it's the Baltimore Orioles.

[Sports Guy]

Right, with the Orioles it never does. They never develop anything, so they're constantly trying to flip what little they have of value in the hopes that somehow they'll win all of the trades one day and turn 3-4 good players into 8 or 10 prospects who all work out.

When has the carousel stopped in Tampa?