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Roch: Pitching looking like a priority this offseason

JTrea81

By JTrea81
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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Well this should make most happy...

Granted a SP is likely to sign first before Fielder or Pujols anyway... ;)

I do really like this comment :

I asked Showalter whether the club could go against it's grow-the-arms philosophy and make an aggressive offer to a free-agent starter such as C.J. Wilson or Mark Buehrle.

"I think you have to look at all avenues," he said. "The first place you're always going to look is from within, and I think one of the biggest things you can do as an organization is evaluate yourself sincerely, not with rose-colored glasses, and look at things clearly. If you can't fill it from within...we're into the process some with the young pitchers. It's not a one-day, one-start, one-year thing. It's a process. But through that process, you also have to be willing to identify that maybe this one is not going to happen. You've got to be honest with yourself, instead of saying, 'Well, he was traded for, he was drafted here, he was this and that.' You're better off getting ahead of the curve than waiting until everybody else figures it out."

This is one of the Orioles' biggest problems, always waiting for their pitching prospects to pan out only to see them crash and burn and lose all trade value. It makes me wonder to see if they are going to trade Brian Matusz or not.

And it sounds like Buck is willing to spend in FA on SP. So the question remains has he convinced PGA? My bet is yes, which is why you don't want anybody in the organization countering that opinion (cough MacPhail cough).

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Dwight Schrute Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Dwight Schrute

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Well this should make most happy...

Granted a SP is likely to sign first before Fielder or Pujols anyway... ;)

I do really like this comment :

This is one of the Orioles' biggest problems, always waiting for their pitching prospects to pan out only to see them crash and burn and lose all trade value. It makes me wonder to see if they are going to trade Brian Matusz or not.

And it sounds like Buck is willing to spend in FA on SP. So the question remains has he convinced PGA? My bet is yes, which is why you don't want anybody in the organization countering that opinion (cough MacPhail cough).

Wow, its almost like someone in the organization noticed that we had the worst pitching in MLB last year. No wai!

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ShaneDawg85 Hangout Veteran Council

ShaneDawg85

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You do realize that Andy MacPhail traded Erik Bedard, a guy who was drafted, developed, and thrived by the Orioles? Right? You do realize that years ago the Orioles trade Sidney Ponson when he was in the midst of the best season of his career?

The Orioles have traded guys they have developed, so don't sit there and act like this whole grow the arms thing was started by Andy MacPhail, or that the only reason they haven't signed a free agent pitcher is because of him. The Orioles haven't signed a major free agent pitcher under Peter Angelos going far back as I remember, and no, Sidney Ponson was not that in 2004. Peter Angelos will not throw major money at free agent pitchers, and an average major league manager like Buck Showalter is not going to convince him to throw 40-50 million at CJ Wilson, or give 30 something Mark Buhrle a 3 or 4 year deal.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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You do realize that Andy MacPhail traded Erik Bedard, a guy who was drafted, developed, and thrived by the Orioles? Right? You do realize that years ago the Orioles trade Sidney Ponson when he was in the midst of the best season of his career?

The Orioles have traded guys they have developed, so don't sit there and act like this whole grow the arms thing was started by Andy MacPhail, or that the only reason they haven't signed a free agent pitcher is because of him. The Orioles haven't signed a major free agent pitcher under Peter Angelos going far back as I remember, and no, Sidney Ponson was not that in 2004. Peter Angelos will not throw major money at free agent pitchers, and an average major league manager like Buck Showalter is not going to convince him to throw 40-50 million at CJ Wilson, or give 30 something Mark Buhrle a 3 or 4 year deal.

Neither of those two will be nearly that cheap.
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GoldGlove21 All-Star

GoldGlove21

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You do realize that Andy MacPhail traded Erik Bedard, a guy who was drafted, developed, and thrived by the Orioles? Right? You do realize that years ago the Orioles trade Sidney Ponson when he was in the midst of the best season of his career?

The Orioles have traded guys they have developed, so don't sit there and act like this whole grow the arms thing was started by Andy MacPhail, or that the only reason they haven't signed a free agent pitcher is because of him. The Orioles haven't signed a major free agent pitcher under Peter Angelos going far back as I remember, and no, Sidney Ponson was not that in 2004. Peter Angelos will not throw major money at free agent pitchers, and an average major league manager like Buck Showalter is not going to convince him to throw 40-50 million at CJ Wilson, or give 30 something Mark Buhrle a 3 or 4 year deal.

Erik Bedard was a 6th round pick (187th) overall. The Orioles signed Ponson as a non-drafted free agent. We did draft Ben McDonald, but he was the pitching Ken Griffey at the time. We did draft Mike Mussina with the 20th overall pick. Drafting the best player available and focusing your draft around pitching are two separate ideologies.

The Orioles had the opportunity to trade the booze and party loving Ponson for Adrian Gonzalez IIRC and move Ponson only after he has issues. We actually got him back and extended him on a 3/$22.5M deal before he got hit with two DWI's in one offseason and had a run in with the police. He had a deal worked out to land Phil Nevin at the deadline, but Nevin envoked his no trade clause and blocked the trade. The Orioles released Ponson and were able to void/settle with Ponson. The Orioles mistake was not that they traded or released Ponson, the issue was that they didn't trade him sooner.

CJ Wilson is going to be a 4/$60M player at a minimum IMO and 5/$85M depending on the market. Beurhle may get a 4 year deal in the $40M range. Pitching is expensive because each team needs 5 of them verses a single position player at each spot on the diamond.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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I will never post in this forum ever again if they trade Matusz. That's how confident I am that they are NOT trading Matusz. It would single-handedly be the most idiotic trade in history.
I don't see where Buck was saying anything about trading anyone, He was commenting that there may come a time when you say that pitcher X isn't going to make it. My guess that would be Tillman if anyone.
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The Rick Hangout Grand Counsel

The Rick

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I will never post in this forum ever again if they trade Matusz. That's how confident I am that they are NOT trading Matusz. It would single-handedly be the most idiotic trade in history.

That's a ridiculous thing to say. Not saying they should trade Matusz, but if they know something that indicates he isn't likely to turn things around then that's exactly what we should do.

That quote by Buck that Trea quoted is fantastic. I've been saying this for years that we always fail to identify which of our "top billed" prospects are less likely to reach that potential, and flip those prospects prior to their value plummeting. These are the trades that will upset fans, for obvious reasons, but hopefully it's because Buck or others in the organization know something we don't.

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LookitsPuck Hangout Grand Counsel

LookitsPuck

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That's a ridiculous thing to say. Not saying they should trade Matusz, but if they know something that indicates he isn't likely to turn things around then that's exactly what we should do.

That quote by Buck that Trea quoted is fantastic. I've been saying this for years that we always fail to identify which of our "top billed" prospects are less likely to reach that potential, and flip those prospects prior to their value plummeting. These are the trades that will upset fans, for obvious reasons, but hopefully it's because Buck or others in the organization know something we don't.

Trading Matusz right now would be monumentally stupid. It'd be trading for pennies on the dollar. Not smart. It's selling low. And what's ridiculous is if pitching is a priority, then why trade depth? Ideally you don't start Matusz in the majors in 2012. But trading him would just be ridiculous.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Trading Matusz right now would be monumentally stupid. It'd be trading for pennies on the dollar. Not smart. It's selling low. And what's ridiculous is if pitching is a priority, then why trade depth? Ideally you don't start Matusz in the majors in 2012. But trading him would just be ridiculous.
well, it depends on what you get for him.

Just because he had a bad year doesn't mean his value is non-existent.

Don't get wrong, it likely would be dumb to trade him but its ridiculous to do it, without knowing the return, is in itself, ridiculous.

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