Roch: Pitching looking like a priority this offseason

[scOtt]

Reimold?

That's why they have to be sure Luke is healthy again. Say they sign Luke and Willingham for insurance. If Luke IS healthy then Reimold gets squeezed out. Would be good depth tho.

EDIT: I'm not sure if Reimold has any options left, I'm guessing no. He would be fairly easy to trade in ST tho, ala Penn for Andino.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think there are a lot of players like Scott in the game. The best scenario for would be for Scott to have a great year and us deal him for a quality prospect or two. I am concerned with cost to some extent, but if we do not use saved money for other areas than I could care less what the Orioles spend. We have to field a team? Fielding a team is simple, but fielding a quality is another story. The Orioles can spend money, but they have failed at putting quality teams on the field.

Maybe so, but all the crap FA's we've signed in recent years have cost us more than Scott and produced squat. Sure we could field a team of replacement level players, but I'm pretty sure you know that's not the point. If we had more OF's in the sytem beyond Reimold, fine. But I wouldn't be thrilled about Hudson or Angle in the OF next year. I don't think thy're even worthy of being a 4th outfielders.

[Sanfran327]

I just think there is a lot of talent on this team as it is, but the problem has been that some players are not in the right roles for their skills. Some guys are asked to be more than they can be. Davis, Reynolds, Andino, Scott, and Reimold can all exist on this team together and get plenty of ABs. But we should still try to get starters to fill 1st, 2nd, 3rd, LF, and DH to fill out what those players cannot handle.

[Fan4Life]

Well this should make most happy...

Granted a SP is likely to sign first before Fielder or Pujols anyway...

I do really like this comment :

This is one of the Orioles' biggest problems, always waiting for their pitching prospects to pan out only to see them crash and burn and lose all trade value. It makes me wonder to see if they are going to trade Brian Matusz or not.

And it sounds like Buck is willing to spend in FA on SP. So the question remains has he convinced PGA? My bet is yes, which is why you don't want anybody in the organization countering that opinion (cough MacPhail cough).

As it should be.

[GoldGlove21]

Maybe so, but all the crap FA's we've signed in recent years have cost us more than Scott and produced squat. Sure we could field a team of replacement level players, but I'm pretty sure you know that's not the point. If we had more OF's in the sytem beyond Reimold, fine. But I wouldn't be thrilled about Hudson or Angle in the OF next year. I don't think thy're even worthy of being a 4th outfielders.

I don't have a huge issue with bringing Scott back if he is healthy and I will agree that Lee was a complete bust for us. Guerrero was not very good for a large stretch of the season and his numbers were not keeping pitchers up at night that is for sure. All of that being said, who does Scott take at bats from and what is his role on the team? If he starts than who is he starting/DH'ing over?

Is Scott a better fielding outfielder than Reimold? Does he have more long term upside to the Orioles than Reimold? I think the answer to both questions is no and feel that Scott should fill a DH/1B/LF role as a 4th outfielder. He is clearly an offensive upgrade over Pie and we could do a lot worse than Scott IMO. The problem I have is that we have Reynolds, Chris Davis and a potential free agent first baseman target to cover the 1B/3B/DH roles. Reimold would start in LF and I feel that Reimold needs to play everyday if the Orioles are really going to consider him to be a part of the future and not just a 4th outfielder type moving forward. I think tha Reimold should be Matt Joyce good and that is good enough for me.

This team could use Scott and he does tend to get hot. I am not totaly against bringing him back, but I think that his $5M+ salary in addition to some incentives could be used in conjunction with other funds to target a starting pitcher. If I am the Orioles I am going to look for ways to cut 2011 parts to compensate for at least one additional pitcher. Guerrero made $7.6M, Lee $7.25M, Scott made $6.4M, Gonzalez $6M, Itzturis $1.5M and Accardo $1M. Those players alone will save us almost $30M before a small amount of the Koji Uehara savings is factored in. That is about $57M (I thought $2M or so of Guerrero's salary hit this season and added it in and Bonilla's $500K) in team obligations for 2012 before raises for Guthrie ($2.5M+), Jones ($1.7M+), Markakis ($2.9M), Hardy ($1.5M), Reynolds ($1.7M), Johnson ($1M) and all other smaller arbitration awards are factored in.

There is high probability that another $10M-$12M will be added to the $57M payroll of returning players from 2011. That is upwards of $69M before we consider bringing back Scott at $4M-$5M plus incentives. So if Scott returns than we would be at about $73M in 2012. It is important to keep in mind that we would basically be bringing back the same squad from 2011 because we had to push some of Guerrero's 2011 salary into 2012 because we couldn't afford it last season? So how do we keep all of these guys, pretty much give them all raises and justify bringing Scott back $5M+ when we would only have about $12M to put towards free agency if we wanted to stay in the $85M area? We use that $12M to sign one quality starting pitcher and maybe another starting pitcher coming off of an injury?

Would $12M buy Beurhle and Wang? What do the Orioles do if Roberts can't come back healthy? Do they run Andino out as the starter every night? If I am the Orioles I am not bringing Scott back and I am looking to deal Gregg if possible. Any chance that Arizona would give us Hernandez back if we offered them Gregg and $2M of his 2012 salary? We would save a little money ($1M+) and get a reliever who is controlled longer than Gregg. Not saying they would do it, I am just saying.

Starting pitching needs to be addressed and I am not sure you do that by penciling in JJ and Simon as starters for the 2012 seasons and adding Beuhrle.

Guthrie

Beurhle

Britton

Hudson

Simon

I suppose you could start the year with that rotation and hope that a guy like Matusz gets his act together. I am not a big fan of moving JJ out of a role that he is above average at take a flier on him as a starter. I also think it will be a terrible move on the Orioles part if they go into the season with any more than 1/5th or maybe of the starting spots being given to young starters. Maybe you feel good about Britton, but how could you feel really good about Arrieta, Matusz, Bergesen or Tillman as starters heading into the season. The O's best bet is to get CJ Wilson and place him at the top of your rotation, but because that is not going to happen we should focus on adding Beuhrle and Wang IMO.

Guthrie

Beuhrle

Britton

Wang

Hunter

You put Simon and Arrieta into the pen and use one of the two as your long man (Simon).

JJ

Gregg

Simon

Arrieta

Strop

Eyre

Patton

In this scenario the Orioles do not break the bank and have a lot more depth at starting pitcher and in the pen. The more I look at the 2012 team payroll and see how we handled things in 2011 the more I think that there is not chance that we land Fielder without going into the $105M area and I doubt we do that. Fix the pitching and see if you can land another bat after that. That and pray that Roberts comes back healthy, Hardy stays healthy again, Wieters and Jones continue to perform well as they grow, Reynolds or Davis locks down the defense at third/first and that at least one of Reimold or Davis steps up in a big way.

[GoldGlove21]

I just think there is a lot of talent on this team as it is, but the problem has been that some players are not in the right roles for their skills. Some guys are asked to be more than they can be. Davis, Reynolds, Andino, Scott, and Reimold can all exist on this team together and get plenty of ABs. But we should still try to get starters to fill 1st, 2nd, 3rd, LF, and DH to fill out what those players cannot handle.

Pitching, pitching and pitching. We can take the group that we currently have and give many of them raises while still landing two quality starting pitchers and upgrade 1st, 2nd, 3rd, LF and DH. Not going to happen and as a GM I would think that requiring upgrades at 6 of 25 roster spots would be a major overhaul IMO. You should go into an offseason looking to add a starter, an arm or two for the pen and upgrade one position in the field/DH. How are we going to upgrade DH, 1B and LF and still find plenty of bats Reimold, Scott, Davis and Reynolds. Is 200-250 at bats plenty? Reynolds is going to make like $7M in 2012, Scott will make $4.5M plus and Davis and Reimold need to actually play to know if they are anything more than glorified backups moving forward. Reynolds is going to be an everyday player so he should be one of the 1B/3B/DH options that you mentioned. Reimold is going to play as well IMO and he is going to be a 1B/DH/LF option for this club. We didn't get Davis to sit him, but if we do that is fine. You might add another bat, but it is likely to be a Cuddyer type. Pitching is going to be what we focus on this offseason and it should be IMO.

[Sanfran327]

Pitching, pitching and pitching. We can take the group that we currently have and give many of them raises while still landing two quality starting pitchers and upgrade 1st, 2nd, 3rd, LF and DH. Not going to happen and as a GM I would think that requiring upgrades at 6 of 25 roster spots would be a major overhaul IMO. You should go into an offseason looking to add a starter, an arm or two for the pen and upgrade one position in the field/DH. How are we going to upgrade DH, 1B and LF and still find plenty of bats Reimold, Scott, Davis and Reynolds. Is 200-250 at bats plenty? Reynolds is going to make like $7M in 2012, Scott will make $4.5M plus and Davis and Reimold need to actually play to know if they are anything more than glorified backups moving forward. Reynolds is going to be an everyday player so he should be one of the 1B/3B/DH options that you mentioned. Reimold is going to play as well IMO and he is going to be a 1B/DH/LF option for this club. We didn't get Davis to sit him, but if we do that is fine. You might add another bat, but it is likely to be a Cuddyer type. Pitching is going to be what we focus on this offseason and it should be IMO.

I was relying heavily on that group to fill some of those positions. I think our best investment would be in Reyes (if available) and maybe a trade for a slick-fielding 3bman that can somewhat handle a bat and as many SPs as we can afford. The bullpen should be fine if the rotation gets better. That's the one place I'm sick of spending money. If you're going to invest in your pitching staff, spend your money in the rotation.

[Dipper9]

Well this should make most happy...

Granted a SP is likely to sign first before Fielder or Pujols anyway...

I do really like this comment :

This is one of the Orioles' biggest problems, always waiting for their pitching prospects to pan out only to see them crash and burn and lose all trade value. It makes me wonder to see if they are going to trade Brian Matusz or not.

And it sounds like Buck is willing to spend in FA on SP. So the question remains has he convinced PGA? My bet is yes, which is why you don't want anybody in the organization countering that opinion (cough MacPhail cough).

One question Trea...if Buck has convinced Angelos to follow this hypothetical plan of yours, then why of why is Peter BEGGING MacPhail to come back?

[Sanfran327]

One question Trea...if Buck has convinced Angelos to follow this hypothetical plan of yours, then why of why is Peter BEGGING MacPhail to come back?

Is it a fact that PA is begging MacPhail to return? It's risky business trying to make your whole point based on speculation... for you and Trea.

[Dipper9]

Is it a fact that PA is begging MacPhail to return? It's risky business trying to make your whole point based on speculation... for you and Trea.

Its been reported by Roch, Weams, and others that MacPhail was ready to leave but Angelos threw a Hail Mary to get him to stay. "Begging" is my own term, but it fits the scenario from what we've heard.

[Frobby]

I think Reimold is going to be the left fielder next year. Period. And I think he will outproduce Scott or Nick. He's developing into a very dangerous hitter.He projected to 25 HR and 85 RBI..thats fine by me for a corner outfielder.

I don't know if Reimold will be the DH or the LF next year, but I feel pretty sure that he will be on the team and playing most of the time. He is going to be a streaky player, but the combo of power, speed and a good batting eye gives him a lot of value. I do think that 25 HR and 85 RBI is realistic for him if you get him 550 PA.

[Lucky Jim]

I don't know if Reimold will be the DH or the LF next year, but I feel pretty sure that he will be on the team and playing most of the time. He is going to be a streaky player, but the combo of power, speed and a good batting eye gives him a lot of value. I do think that 25 HR and 85 RBI is realistic for him if you get him 550 PA.

I've long been a Reimold skeptic - or, more accurately, a skeptic of the irrational love of Reimold on this board - but I agree that his solid performance at the end of the year reinforce this point. Finding a combination of power, speed and patience like Nolan's on the FA (or even MiLB trade) market would be pricey. I'd still look for insurance, though. I'll leave it to the Roto-geniuses to figure out who that insurance should be, though.

[JTrea81]

One question Trea...if Buck has convinced Angelos to follow this hypothetical plan of yours, then why of why is Peter BEGGING MacPhail to come back?

I have no idea really and that does worry me...