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What evidence do we have that Angelos...

Skeletor

By Skeletor
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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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It is possible to win with Angelos on the blind squirrel principle. But it is not possible to build a continual contender, with him. How many GM's and managers in the past 14 years? What does that tell you. Rigid and arbitrary limits on certain kinds of spending. Reputation for the most difficult team in MLB to deal with? Pat Gillick the best GM in recent history resigned from the O's and calls PA King Peter. That's enough to convince me, he's the number one problem with this franchise.

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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It does though. Why worry about sustaining a playoff run when you are miles away from the playoffs?

First you get there, then you can add the parts and pieces to advance.

This is how the 1996-1997 Orioles did it. They got to the playoffs in 1996 and then got the pieces to advance that next offseason, improving their defense by getting Bordick and moving Cal from short to 3B, replacing Bonilla with Davis (though Hammonds got the majority of the playing time), and adding Key to the rotation.

Yeah, and what happened in the years after?

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Hooded Viper Major Leaguer

Hooded Viper

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You call it "intervening." We agree it was about a relatively minor issue, which is why I call it meddling. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because I believe that Andy should have the latitude to work out a deal at that level on his own. Buck didn't really start meeting with Angelos, at MacPhail's encouragement, until this season, so let's not pretend that Pete and Buck were confidantes last offseason.

Honestly I have no problem with an owner saying, hey I will give you the extra cash to sign so and so. Ozzie Newsome is always talking about Steve Bischotti giving him the cash to either sign or extend a player. I think there are soooooo many reasons to dislike Peter but him willing to pay extra money is nit picking.

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sangar All-Star

sangar

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I view all this as a bunch of second-hand guessing that is quite unpersuasive. The Orioles have been awful for the last 14 years, and the natural instinct is to blame someone for it, and Angelos certainly deserves blame. But that does not mean that the Orioles cannot win with Angelos as owner. I would also note that the deals he has reportedly nixed were not good ones for the Orioles...weren't we supposed to get the decaying corpse of Marcus Giles for Roberts? Yeah, I'm glad that didn't happen.

Anyway, the reason the team failed this year is not because of the owner. The team failed because the players failed, and Angelos did not cause a highly regarded young pitcher like Brian Matusz to suddenly develop into one of the worst stating pitchers in baseball history.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is some evidence that Angelos is a meddlesome owner, but I'm not sure in this respect how different he is from many other owners in the game. What I'm also trying to say is that **** happens, and some of what has happened to the Orioles is due to bad decision making, some due to poor performance, and some to just plain bad luck. I really don't agree with those who act as if nothing this organization does will matter unless Angelos sells the team. Although it sounds kind of silly to call the owner of a team the scapegoat for its failures, I do think that there is an oversimplification going on when people act as if everything that goes wrong for this club can be laid at the doorstep of the owner.

The entire post is both well said and accurate. PA's ownership is no doubt faulty, but it seems to have a velcro surface.
This is an excellent post. Nonetheless it will bounce off the entrenched biases like a super ball off concrete.
As you predicted...
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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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It is possible to win with Angelos on the blind squirrel proinciple. But it is not possible to build a continual contender, with him. How many GM's and managers in the past 14 years? What does that tell you. Rigid and arbitrary limits on certain kinds of spending. Reputation for the most difficult team in MLB to deal with? Pat Gillick the best GM in recent history resigned from the O's and calls PA King Peter. That's enough to convince me, he's the number one problem with this franchise.

Pillar10-History-French-Revolution-Delacroix.jpg

mors tyrannis

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DeanMW AA

DeanMW

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This is how the 1996-1997 Orioles did it. They got to the playoffs in 1996 and then got the pieces to advance that next offseason, improving their defense by getting Bordick and moving Cal from short to 3B, replacing Bonilla with Davis (though Hammonds got the majority of the playing time), and adding Key to the rotation.

Which lead to '98 where they all got older, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them due to the nixed trades, which lead to 99-now.

Those who do not follow history...

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weams Hangout Grand Counsel

weams

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Which lead to '98 where they all got older, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them due to the nixed trades, which lead to 99-now.

Those who do not follow history...

We are still paying Bobby Bonilla. Isn't it fun to spend big?
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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Which lead to '98 where they all got older, with nothing in the pipeline to replace them due to the nixed trades, which lead to 99-now.

Those who do not follow history...

Nobody is saying that you neglect the farm system. Having a succession plan is key.

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