Roch: Next GM must be on same page as Buck

[clapdiddy]

You don't have isuses extending him to a stupid contract?

I don't think comparing Jones to Vernon Wells is too far off. They both have plate discipline issues, strike out quite a bit, and don't walk a lot.

That being said, I wouldn't mind a commitment to Jones for the next 4 years, but I wouldn't do anything like a Wells-type deal.

[UMDTerrapins]

If we think we're an undesirable destination for free agents, imagine how desirable we are for prospective GMs! Nobody wants to work for Angelos. And just to make it extra juicy, let's make it publicly clear before interviewing any candidates that not only do you need to get Angelos's approval on any moves (which can take an eternity just to be rebuked and make you look like a fool to the other GM), you also need to get clearance from the manager, who will probably want to discuss it with Angelos. Every GM knows this, so why even bother approaching the Orioles at the winter meetings?

Anyone who wants this job is not anyone we want, because simply taking the job shows he's poor at making critical decisions. I'll be interested to see the list of final candidates. I hope I'm wrong.

[ChaosLex]

If we think we're an undesirable destination for free agents, imagine how desirable we are for prospective GMs! Nobody wants to work for Angelos. And just to make it extra juicy, let's make it publicly clear before interviewing any candidates that not only do you need to get Angelos's approval on any moves (which can take an eternity just to be rebuked and make you look like a fool to the other GM), you also need to get clearance from the manager, who will probably want to discuss it with Angelos. And of course every GM knows this, so why even bother approaching the Orioles at the winter meetings?

Anyone who wants this job is not anyone we want, because simply taking the job shows he's poor at making critical decisions. I'll be interested to see the list of final candidates. I hope I'm wrong.

I'm not so sure about that. Connolly posted an interesting article about this just this morning.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/10/who_would_want_the_orioles_gm_1.html

[UMDTerrapins]

I'm not so sure about that. Connolly posted an interesting article about this just this morning.

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/10/who_would_want_the_orioles_gm_1.html

Somebody WILL take the job. But it's important to focus not on the list of candidates that we are discussing NOW, but the list of candidates that have not removed their names from consideration once the process has played out. I don't expect to be overly impressed with our options.

[SteveO]

You all have it dead wrong. I mean 360 degrees wrong. What person other than a few top notch guys like Cashman, Friedman, and Epstein WOULD NOT WANT THIS JOB. Your essentially going to be taking over a team that is in the gutter so to speak. 14 straight losing seasons, an owner that is perceived as meddlesome, a manager who will have equal say in player acquisitions, a minor league system that is essentially bare with the exception of a few decent prospects not nearly major league ready. Yea that all sounds bad but think about this though....this job is the ultimate free pass.

There are a limited number of opportunities out there and unless your sure your gonna get a much better one why not take it? Think about it. If you take the job and fail there are a million built in excuses why it happened. You think the Phillies didn't look at what Joe Jordan did here and say .....well he did work for the Orioles and there are limitations there which explains some of the failures (Rowell, Snyder, Hobgood). If there is even a modicum of success then there will be enough back slapping a credit to be shared with many people who make it happen. Really this is a job that is a no lose situation IMO.

[lint06]

You all have it dead wrong. I mean 360 degrees wrong.

180 degrees.

[UMDTerrapins]

180 degrees.

Don't sell us short.....we're are running in circles.

[mcgraw238]

Someone decent is going to take the job for the reasons Connolly outlined in his blog. The question will be whether the new GM has the freedom to restructure the developmental system and spend on the domestic draft and international talent.

[MarylandAaron]

Ugh, why does the new GM have to be "on the same page" with Buck? Why can't we just hire a GM like Andrew Friedman from the Rays? Someone who is young, smart, and hip with current baseball trends. And Angelos just let him do his thing and not meddle. I guess the O's FO wants another 14 years of losing baseball.

[SteveO]

yes I did mean a complete 180 lol ..... call that a senior moment.

Still think the point is valid. This is a no lose job particularly for a guy looking to make a mark. Its almost like getting to be GM with a mulligan.

[SteveO]

Ugh, why does the new GM have to be "on the same page" with Buck? Why can't we just hire a GM like Andrew Friedman from the Rays? Someone who is young, smart, and hip with current baseball trends. And Angelos just let him do his thing and not meddle. I guess the O's FO wants another 14 years of losing baseball.

While 95% of the people you would consider to fill the job would take it in an instant if offered, I doubt that Friedman would come here Buck or no Buck. If Friedman let his availability be known, there would be teams lined up to hire him. Just as there would be several teams (O's included) who would line up to hire Epstein if they had a realistic chance.

This Orioles GM job is the perfect job for either a young GM canidate looking for that first crack at it or an guy who is looking for another crack at it.

[LookinUp]

Once again, I think (hope) this board is jumping to conclusions about what it means to be on the same page as Buck. I'm not convinced that he'll put this organization in a terrible position. He might choose a couple of bloated contracts and a rebuild on the fly approach, but that's at least as credible as another teardown and build up approach (which is what I support).

I highly doubt he chooses a wild spending spree gone bad approach, but you never know.

[LookinUp]

You all have it dead wrong. I mean 360 degrees wrong. What person other than a few top notch guys like Cashman, Friedman, and Epstein WOULD NOT WANT THIS JOB. Your essentially going to be taking over a team that is in the gutter so to speak. 14 straight losing seasons, an owner that is perceived as meddlesome, a manager who will have equal say in player acquisitions, a minor league system that is essentially bare with the exception of a few decent prospects not nearly major league ready. Yea that all sounds bad but think about this though....this job is the ultimate free pass.

There are a limited number of opportunities out there and unless your sure your gonna get a much better one why not take it? Think about it. If you take the job and fail there are a million built in excuses why it happened. You think the Phillies didn't look at what Joe Jordan did here and say .....well he did work for the Orioles and there are limitations there which explains some of the failures (Rowell, Snyder, Hobgood). If there is even a modicum of success then there will be enough back slapping a credit to be shared with many people who make it happen. Really this is a job that is a no lose situation IMO.

Aside from the 360 degrees part, I agree with this post. The only place I'd hedge is if I see people pulling their names from consideration. I'd have to assume that the GM candidate(s) was asking for more autonomy than he was being offerred, which is terrible.

[UMDTerrapins]

Someone decent is going to take the job for the reasons Connolly outlined in his blog. The question will be whether the new GM has the freedom to restructure the developmental system and spend on the domestic draft and international talent.

Our best option will probably be a young up and comer. Nothing wrong with that in most scenarios, but not with the Orioles. A GM for Angelos has to have a well established reputation to get his respect. Say what you will about MacPhail, but I've always felt that at least his opinions were heard by Angelos. A new Frank Wren is what we're looking for it seems. Wren never stood a chance in Baltimore. It worked out ok for him ultimately because he ended up in a functional organization, but it did nothing for the Orioles. Angelos just won't take anyone green seriously.

My point is that while it may be a nice stepping stone for a young executive, it does nothing to improve our front office's ability to make any meaningful changes. And even some ambitious young executives will politely remove their names from consideration after they get a face to face meeting with the boss and ask around the league for opinions. I just don't see anyone who would be able to be effective in this job being willing to take the job. They would need clout and experience. On our preliminary list, who is that? We'll end up with the Lee Mazzilli of GMs......and that's not to insult Mazzilli, but the new guy will be equally screwed from day one and trying to rebuild his reputation a few years later when he's cut loose.

And isn't Buck's reputation that he tends to wear on the front office after a few years? A young GM would be reliant on Buck being able to convince Angelos of the things that you need to be able to do to be successful. What happens when the two headstrong guys who you have to run anything through start clashing? Where does that put you? And if you are successful, the credit will go to Buck anyhow. This is a bad job for a young guy.

[UMDTerrapins]

Ugh, why does the new GM have to be "on the same page" with Buck? Why can't we just hire a GM like Andrew Friedman from the Rays? Someone who is young, smart, and hip with current baseball trends. And Angelos just let him do his thing and not meddle. I guess the O's FO wants another 14 years of losing baseball.

I have to restate this. Why does anyone think that a young and smart executive will be able to have ANY control over Angelos? He's not going to cede power and control to a young executive who's getting his big break. MacPhail got the closest of anyone since Gillick, and that's in large part because his last name is MacPhail and he's a well established executive.