Ripken and Palmer called some of most overrated players of all time

[scOtt]

I was going to post that Cal had more hits (yes) and HRs (no) than Gehrig, so Gehrig was overrated too. Fail.

Interesting side note tho...

Cal's career OBP and SLG% was .340/.447

Lou's career AVG and OBP was .340/.447

:eek:tf!!!

[scOtt]

Yeah I am going to challenge that silly statement - Palmer was a much, much better fielder and from what I remember could hit a little bit too - you are way off on that one

I was 8 years old to 18 in the 70's, and not near as fanatic a fan as now... Palmer may have been a great fielder, but so was Moose. Very talented and ALWAYS square to the plate and ready to field after his delivery.

Hitting loses meaning between the two. Who knows what Mike may have done.

EDIT: Less convincing stat for sure... Mussina won 7 GGs, Palmer 4...

[Remember The Alomar]

Yeah I am going to challenge that silly statement - Palmer was a much, much better fielder and from what I remember could hit a little bit too - you are way off on that one

I think you forget how good a fielder Mussina was...and how much does Palmer's career OPS+ of 18 really help his cause?

Mussina is tremendously underrated. He's should be a no doubt HOFer, but I can see him becoming the next Blyleven for the very same reasons that Frobby outlined.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah I am going to challenge that silly statement - Palmer was a much, much better fielder and from what I remember could hit a little bit too - you are way off on that one

a) A pitcher's value is 98% in his pitching, and Mussina is quite comparable (and arguably) better in the pitching component of his value.

b) They had very similar batting numbers, neither any good.

c) Fielding is very hard to evaluate for pitchers, but (yes, this is highly flawed) they both won multiple gold gloves.

It's difficult to objectively conclude Palmer was significantly better than Mussina, unless you put immense weight on wins given credit for and innings Mussina couldn't rack up because of the five-man rotation and increased use of relievers.

[Orioles0615]

I found this article someplace else and have never even heard of bleacher report til i saw it.

I also think Cal could of hit 500 homeruns at one point if he either didn't do the streak or stopped the streak early, and didn't play when he was hurt and rest up completely.

[Can_of_corn]

I found this article someplace else and have never even heard of bleacher report til i saw it.

I also think Cal could of hit 500 homeruns at one point if he either didn't do the streak or stopped the streak early, and didn't play when he was hurt and rest up completely.

69 more homeruns? I respectfully disagree.

[weams]

69 more homeruns? I respectfully disagree.

Didn't he do a commercial with Barry Bonds? There are circumstances where it would have been possible. Earring or not.

[Can_of_corn]

Didn't he do a commercial with Barry Bonds? There are circumstances where it would have been possible. Earring or not.

Not everyone has the same reactions to certain....medications. Anyway if you are going to go there wouldn't it be easier to mention some of his teammates?

[weams]

Not everyone has the same reactions to certain....medications. Anyway if you are going to go there wouldn't it be easier to mention some of his teammates?

They never hit 73 home runs. There.

[Can_of_corn]

They never hit 73 home runs. There.

What is more unlikely?

49-73 or

16-50?

Don't forget 5-43, everyone forgets 5-43.

Looks to me that certain folks in Orioles uniforms had sudden spikes in performance comparable to what Bonds experienced.

[RHall31]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that.

None. Just a consideration of the context. When I was a kid in NY I would constantly debate that Palmer was better than Seaver. As an adult I now realize he really wasn't.

I seriously under-rated Seaver, too. My father idolized both.

Palmer was about as good as Seaver in his prime, but Seaver stayed good a lot longer. Ditto for Steve Carlton.

Having watched both pitchers for most of their careers, I thought Palmer was better then and still think he was better than Seaver. Of course my Orioles/Palmer bias has to factor in at some point so

I looked at their career stats. Browsing through these records I have Palmer ahead of Seaver. IMO, he had more dominating seasons than Seaver did. He had the 8 monster seasons in the '70s when he anchored the staff and thats tough to beat.

[Bradysburns]

Yeah I am going to challenge that silly statement - Palmer was a much, much better fielder and from what I remember could hit a little bit too - you are way off on that one

Mussina was an excellent pitcher, and very consistent. But he's not a legend, like Palmer is. Palmer's ERA tells the story in terms of this comparison, IMO.

[Bradysburns]

a) A pitcher's value is 98% in his pitching, and Mussina is quite comparable (and arguably) better in the pitching component of his value.

b) They had very similar batting numbers, neither any good.

c) Fielding is very hard to evaluate for pitchers, but (yes, this is highly flawed) they both won multiple gold gloves.

It's difficult to objectively conclude Palmer was significantly better than Mussina, unless you put immense weight on wins given credit for and innings Mussina couldn't rack up because of the five-man rotation and increased use of relievers.

But again, look at the championships, look at the Cys, look at the 20-win seasons - the sustained dominance - look at the career ERA numbers. Some of this has to do with the golden age of Orioles history that Palmer was part of... but a lot has to do with his sheer talent.

[statman]

I know it's blasphemy in these parts, but I agree on Ripken. Thought he always was a little overrated. Completely disagree on Palmer, he was one of the best of his time (and ever).

Really? I'd like to hear your list of the best hitting shortstops of all time...

[RHall31]

Mussina was an excellent pitcher, and very consistent. But he's not a legend, like Palmer is. Palmer's ERA tells the story in terms of this comparison, IMO.

For me, there are three things I really value in a starter. Starting games(obviously) pitching deep into games, and limiting runs(era). Sounds simple

I looked at Palmer, Seaver and Mussina's career stats side by side and what jumps out at me is how many times Palmer led the league in GS, CG, IP and ERA.

Throw in the fact the he led the league in multiple categories, multiple years and

he's ahead of Seaver. Mussina's record pales in comparison.