Orioles Reach Out To Prince Fielder's Representatives

[Sanfran327]

Well, I think your opinion is wrong.

Whether Seattle chooses to go after pitching or offense for Smoak is to be determined.

However, if they did want hitting and say, wanted Adam Jones, you mean to tell me that Smoak can't be the primary player you have coming back for Jones?

I want at least two ML-ready players in return for AJ. Smoak and one other player that's ready to play and produce on OD 2012. Think they'd be willing to give us Gutierrez and Smoak for AJ?

[El Gordo]

I want at least two ML-ready players in return for AJ. Smoak and one other player that's ready to play and produce on OD 2012. Think they'd be willing to give us Gutierrez and Smoak for AJ?

If I were them, I would rather keep Smoak and Gutierrez.

[Sports Guy]

I want at least two ML-ready players in return for AJ. Smoak and one other player that's ready to play and produce on OD 2012. Think they'd be willing to give us Gutierrez and Smoak for AJ?

If they added Fielder, I think they make that trade rather easily UNLESS they determine that they want a cheaper player(and one with more service time) back for Smoak or they decide they want pitching.

As I have said, I would be offering them Guthrie and Jones for Smoak, Guitterez, T Walker and another prospect. I think that is a trade that works out well for both sides.

[Sports Guy]

In that scenario, you're implying that the M's would be sending Smoak+ to the Orioles for Jones alone. Which, again, doesn't make much sense for a team looking to improve its offense. As for my personal "Jones trade" preference...it'd depend on whether Smoak was far-and-away the best player coming back. If he simply headlined a package of strong talent, that'd be fine, but if the ceilings on the rest were relatively low...no, I wouldn't like that. I'm not a huge Smoak fan.

So, it doesn't make sense for them to trade for a better offensive player to improve their offense? Really?

[MrOrange82]

So, it doesn't make sense for them to trade for a better offensive player to improve their offense? Really?

You're not making a strong case for Smoak if you're saying that a CFer who's already playing close to his ceiling (i.e., 280ish BA, 20-25 HR, 80ish RBI) is a "better offensive player" than Smoak...so much so that trading Smoak along with other players to get Jones would make sense for the Mariners.

If that's the case, why even broach the subject? Clearly Smoak isn't worth much, and the O's would be better off keeping Jones.

[Sports Guy]

You're not making a strong case for Smoak if you're saying that a CFer who's already playing close to his ceiling (i.e., 280ish BA, 20-25 HR, 80ish RBI) is a "better offensive player" than Smoak...so much so that trading Smoak along with other players to get Jones would make sense for the Mariners.

If that's the case, why even broach the subject? Clearly Smoak isn't worth much, and the O's would be better off keeping Jones.

What are you talking about?

True or false...Jones is a better offensive player right now vs Smoak?

[andrewrickli]

What are you talking about?

True or false...Jones is a better offensive player right now vs Smoak?

True

Jones has more experience, and a better WAR value

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm not so sure any catcher is a no-brainer to extend through his early-to-mid 30s. The 10 best HOF catchers in history were worth about a 5/125 deal starting on their 28th birthdays:

                                                                                                                                                             Rk             Player WAR/pos From   To   Age   G   PA   AB   R   H  2B 3B  HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP SH SF GDP  SB CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS       Pos          Tm1         Gary Carter    31.6 1982 1986 28-32 739 3137 2739 393 765 132  8 129 487 324  52 287  31  6 37  77   7  9 .279 .358 .475 .832   *2/3975     MON-NYM2     Mickey Cochrane    26.9 1931 1935 28-32 635 2734 2254 476 721 161 18  62 384 436   0 106  18 26  0   0  23 19 .320 .434 .490 .924      *2/7     PHA-DET3          Yogi Berra    25.4 1953 1957 28-32 709 2966 2631 419 751 114 18 130 528 288  23 134  20  6 21  48   5  8 .285 .358 .491 .848    *2/795         NYY4         Bill Dickey    25.1 1935 1939 28-32 632 2668 2335 422 741 137 23 116 541 306   0 108  19  8  0   9  12  5 .317 .401 .545 .946        *2         NYY5      Roy Campanella    22.5 1950 1954 28-32 652 2625 2326 379 657 110 11 146 487 274   0 268  15  9  1  84  15 12 .282 .362 .528 .889        *2         BRO6        Johnny Bench    21.1 1976 1980 28-32 641 2508 2176 306 565 106  4 116 404 297  34 410   6  4 25  48  27 12 .260 .347 .472 .819   *2/3795         CIN7        Carlton Fisk    20.6 1976 1980 28-32 665 2717 2392 398 680 130 18  91 352 248  18 339  41  9 27  51  40 18 .284 .358 .468 .826   *2/D735         BOS8          Buck Ewing    19.2 1888 1892 28-32 404 1763 1616 338 518  72 59  26 311 143   0 103   4  0  0   0 170  0 .321 .377 .486 .864 *2/354167     NYG-NYI9      Ernie Lombardi    17.6 1936 1940 28-32 609 2234 2070 236 668 123  6  74 381 139   0  80  19  6  0  99   2  0 .323 .371 .495 .866        *2         CIN10    Roger Bresnahan    16.6 1907 1911 28-32 491 1831 1472 211 395  70 22   8 183 290   0 114  18 51  0   0  57  0 .268 .395 .362 .757 *2/438517     NYG-STL11     Gabby Hartnett    13.1 1929 1933 28-32 544 2041 1806 246 530 111 12  74 341 200   0 225   3 32  0  17   5  0 .293 .365 .491 .856      *2/3         CHC12       Rick Ferrell     9.6 1934 1938 28-32 625 2430 2060 257 600 122 18  15 258 336   0  91   1 33  0   0   7 10 .291 .391 .390 .781        *2 BOS-TOT-WSH13   Wilbert Robinson     6.7 1891 1895 28-32 464 1859 1719 217 500  83 17   8 306 115   0 131   8 17  0   0  63  0 .291 .338 .373 .711     *2/39     BAL-BLN14         Ray Schalk     3.9 1921 1925 28-32 575 2047 1736 190 440  80 12   6 214 224   0 137  19 68  0   0  34 22 .253 .345 .324 .669        *2         CHW15           Al Lopez     3.4 1937 1941 28-32 516 1768 1592 150 399  57  7  20 185 136   0 170   3 37  0  55  15  0 .251 .311 .333 .644        *2 BSN-TOT-PIT16        Connie Mack     2.7 1891 1895 28-32 293 1158 1039 149 254  31  6   2 100  78   0  57  25 16  0   0  28  0 .244 .313 .292 .604    *2/397         PIT

And remember, that 5/125 deal is in retrospect. Going forward you have no way of knowing if the guy you're trying to extend is going to be Gary Carter or Gabby Hartnett. You have to discount for risk.

Joe Mauer's extension is more-or-less paying him to be the best catcher in history from age 28-on. I think like anything else you need to see how Wieters develops and how the market for him develops and then see if you can get him to sign something reasonable.

I guess I'd have some questions about the historical context of rating Wieters to catchers in the 1930's (or even 60's-70's for that matter). Certainly it's a valid point that catchers can decline pretty quickly though and I appreciate the research/data. It looks to me that guys like Varitek, Posada and Irod have done pretty well through 33 (even longer in some cases). That's certainly somewhat of an anecdotal analysis, but in general I'd say that conditioning and treatment of these guys is significantly better. I don't think we'd be approaching anything near 5/125 for Wieters and had more in mind an extension through 31/32 buying out some of his option years. I think that would be structured quite a bit lower (Mauer's deal included as I don't see them as being similar for a variety of reasons).

Though I'm pleasantly surprised with Wieters defense, I'd be be more inclined to consider the offensive production/potential in greater context. He has the pedigree (even with his slow start) to potentially still become a great hitter. My concern would be about his specific physical traits (similar to Mauer's) and injury risk. Even Mauer with power has greater value at catcher than at 1B/DH (or worse...on the bench nursing a sore back).

[Brendan25]

If they added Fielder, I think they make that trade rather easily UNLESS they determine that they want a cheaper player(and one with more service time) back for Smoak or they decide they want pitching.

As I have said, I would be offering them Guthrie and Jones for Smoak, Guitterez, T Walker and another prospect. I think that is a trade that works out well for both sides.

That is a horrible trade.

[andrewrickli]

A source told me (who works in the Warehouse) that the Orioles have a meeting set up with the Boras Agency to discuss Prince Fielder, apparently, he isnt drawing much interest. Source said that the agency has only had serious talks with the Mariners thus far, and they dont expect it to change.

[csgordos]

A source told me (who works in the Warehouse) that the Orioles have a meeting set up with the Boras Agency to discuss Prince Fielder, apparently, he isnt drawing much interest. Source said that the agency has only had serious talks with the Mariners thus far, and they dont expect it to change.

Add another 10 pages to this thread.

[Roll Tide]

A source told me (who works in the Warehouse) that the Orioles have a meeting set up with the Boras Agency to discuss Prince Fielder, apparently, he isnt drawing much interest. Source said that the agency has only had serious talks with the Mariners thus far, and they dont expect it to change.

Have you been cleared to make these kinds of posts. Basically have your sources been confirmed?

I mean no disrespect ...But a non paying member with these kinds of posts leave me skeptical to say the least.

[Sports Guy]

That is a horrible trade.

Why is this a horrible trade? BEcause we are trading your bff Jones?

[Brendan25]

Why is this a horrible trade? BEcause we are trading your bff Jones?

You think that trade makes our team better? Either this year or 5 years from now? The only way that trade helps us is if Walker turns into a good pitcher, which is a lot of hope.

[El Gordo]

A source told me (who works in the Warehouse) that the Orioles have a meeting set up with the Boras Agency to discuss Prince Fielder, apparently, he isnt drawing much interest. Source said that the agency has only had serious talks with the Mariners thus far, and they dont expect it to change.

This is going to be the case with Flelder IMO. A lot of teams would like to have him, but few if any need him at his price. So there will be a lot of laying in the weeds hoping to get a deal on him. Then there will be a frenzy of bidding at the end, sometime in Feb. :laughlol: