Who is the next JR House or Jon Knott we could sign this offseason?

[Sports Guy]

What difference does it make? We aren't going to play them anyway.

[NewMarketSean]

If you really want to be offended try watching a season of Rodgers' and Bigbies playing every position(of course that wouldn't bother you because you never watch). The 10 years of losing line is tired, stale, boring, and meaningless at this point. You need to find a new act. Millar for example is a good cheap option at 1B for next year unless we get a Loney type in trade. Why bother to play a MiL over him unless he has great potential. Of course if you can get a good RP for Millar, trade him but you're not getting a top 1B prospect for Millar.

If you're going to be content with Millar at 1B and not go out and find someone who could be better and actually give that player a chance, then yes, we could be headed towards another "meaningless" 10 years of losing with that kind of thinking.

And the "ten years of losing" line will never get old, not until we have a winning season.

[NewMarketSean]

Any leitmotif repeated often enough loses it's meaning. When 10 years of losing becomes a reason to play a poor player over a better one because he's younger or hasn't been given enough of chance yet, then yes it is meaning less.

Another dumb statement. Man you're on a roll today.

[NewMarketSean]

I'm for playing the young guys as well. I'd rather see Knott than Payton and House over Bako. But I think the Cust example is faulty. Every year there are one or two AAAA guys who we all want to get a chance. Cust is the ONLY one who has amounted to anything and he has such an odd collection of skills that he shouldn't really count.

For every Cust there are a dozen John Stephens and Jon Knotts. There is a significant backup QB phenomenon at work.

So what is the other option? Pay Jay Payton $5 million a year? Just let Kevin Millar keep playing because he's slightly above average and we might not be able to find someone who is better and shouldn't waste our time to find out?

Some of these kinds of answers are amazing.

[El Gordo]

Hey Gordo, spare me the lecturing. Your post would have been fine above save the sanctimonious preachy line

Reading into comments, or even not reading enough from them is all too common on OH.

For example, could it be that NMS meant more to his comment than you read from it? Could it be that he meant that going with the likes of the Millars and Paytons have contributed to the losing? Could it be that he meant that our unwillingness to give the likes of House/Knott a meaningful chance, only to give a vet like Millar his playing time, has contributed to the losing?

Discussion would be more productive here without the tea leaves. If NMS meant what you suggest, he should learn how to say what he means instead of saying the same thing ad nauseum.

[NewMarketSean]

You should try reading things, before you are so quick to read into them. I said simply. I wouldn't want to see a career MiL leaguer play over Millar unless he were better. To which NMS responded, that's why we've had 10 years of losing. To suggest that we have lost because we have played better players over poor ones is nonsense. When 10 years of losing justifies nonsense it is indeed meaningless. You have to consider the context. I wasn't taking it on it's own.

Another dumb statement. Unless you play these kinds of players you won't know if they are better/worse than Millar. And as a perennial losing team (but that is meaningless, like you said) we should be using that time to find out if these players are better than Millar, someone who has no part of the future of this team.

[NewMarketSean]

Discussion would be more productive here without the tea leaves. If NMS meant what you suggest, he should learn how to say what he means instead of saying the same thing ad nauseum.

Maybe you're the one who should read things before you read into them. All I said from the beginning is that the Orioles should be finding players who could possibly be better than the players like Millar, Huff, Payton, etc... who have done nothing but add to the status quo with mediocre play for millions of dollars per year that could have been better off spent elsewhere.

You strongly disagreed and presented a reason that made absolutely no sense. I responded with "that way of thinking has lead to 10 years of losing."

Obviously, logic is lost on you.

[El Gordo]

So what is the other option? Pay Jay Payton $5 million a year? Just let Kevin Millar keep playing because he's slightly above average and we might not be able to find someone who is better and shouldn't waste our time to find out?

Some of these kinds of answers are amazing.

If we can't find someone better than Millar to play 1B next year why wouldn't you play him? Of course if you can get some one better, it would be silly not to play them. Who do you have in mind. I mentioned Loney but I doubt LAD gives him up. Drungo mentioned Koshansky and Shelton among others; they might be wotrh a try. What's your idea?

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm for playing the young guys as well. I'd rather see Knott than Payton and House over Bako. But I think the Cust example is faulty. Every year there are one or two AAAA guys who we all want to get a chance. Cust is the ONLY one who has amounted to anything and he has such an odd collection of skills that he shouldn't really count.

For every Cust there are a dozen John Stephens and Jon Knotts. There is a significant backup QB phenomenon at work.

The only one?!? He wasn't the only one last year. He probably wasn't the only one on the Oakland A's last year. He wasn't even the only Oriole discard to play a key role on a team better than the O's in 2007 - that list at least includes Casey Blake and Joe Borowski. Every single year there are minor leaguers and journeymen and underused players who'd been written off by numerous organizations who end up with significant playing time on good teams.

The 1989 Orioles happened mainly because of a collection of players exactly like this. The 1983 Orioles had numerous players like this play key roles on a World Championship team.

[SrMeowMeow]

...man, I love how so many posters here are offensive enough to make it almost impossible to agree with them...

[LookitsPuck]

The Orioles are not a good team.

Seeking out Ken Phelps All Star types is a good idea, just way down the list of priorities for this team right now. Don't worry, signing mediocre/poor free agents isn't even on my list at all.

I disagree with your first point. It doesn't HAVE to be a top priority at all. When guys like Cust and Pena tear up the league, then you HAVE to start noticing them, regardless what portion of the ladder we're supposedly fixing.

Reason being:

Let's say we trade Tejada and Bedard. We get a buttload of prospects, but we're still far from contention in '08 or even '09. We also unload some veterans like Payton, somehow nix Gibbons contract (wishful thinking), trading Mora for a bag of chips, and trading either Millar of Huff. With that being done, we can still give a chance to someone like a Cust or a Pena, and I really do think Knott/House could have definitely contributed. At the very least, you have a very cheap, producing player, that can be traded if he produces.

Beane loves this type of stuff. Do you think he signed Frank Thomas because he was the future of the organization? Hell no. He was a cheap option that turned into gold for the man. Cust is similar, as is Pena.

With that being said, there are a lot of holes in the Orioles sail that perennially occur. People can say it's tired and lame to blame 10 years of losing, but that saying is there for a reason. Fix the holes. ALL of them. You can't just say, well, let's worry about A and B, and think about C later. If you're capable, take care of all of them. And, I don't know about you, but a cheap player that we can take a chance on is definitely something we should be doing. Often. Contention or not.

[NewMarketSean]

If we can't find someone better than Millar to play 1B next year why wouldn't you play him? Of course if you can get some one better, it would be silly not to play them. Who do you have in mind. I mentioned Loney but I doubt LAD gives him up. Drungo mentioned Koshansky and Shelton among others; they might be wotrh a try. What's your idea?

Thats why I asked the question at the start of the thread!

None of these MiL players are going to be "better than Millar", obviously. But they could be better, and as a losing team, we need to find out instead of just handing the job to Millar and saying "we'll worry about it next year."

[DrungoHazewood]

The Orioles are not a good team.

Seeking out Ken Phelps All Star types is a good idea, just way down the list of priorities for this team right now. Don't worry, signing mediocre/poor free agents isn't even on my list at all.

If fixing the big things and fixing the little things are currently mutually exclusive for the Baltimore Orioles my #1 priority would be to hire more people for the front office so they can cover all of the things a good major league organization needs to be doing all of the time.

[LookitsPuck]

Thats why I asked the question at the start of the thread!

None of these MiL players are going to be "better than Millar", obviously. But they could be better, and as a losing team, we need to find out instead of just handing the job to Millar and saying "we'll worry about it next year."

Exactly, although they certainly could be better than Millar. We're a losing team right now, and we need to do some puzzle work aside from what prospects we can get from trades. We shouldn't be handing starting jobs to mid 30s and up "veterans".

[RShack]

I have to disagree here, or at least not care.

Quote of the thread, if you ask me. (So far, anyway...)

ps: I bet that keyboards connected to OH have typed the sequence, "J.R. House", more than all other keyboards that are now, or have ever been, in existence...