Updated: Orioles acquire Taylor Teagarden

[EagleOriole]

The point is that, by definition, there are replacement-level (0 WAR) players available for nothing. And even if Teagarden is a 2 WAR player, as a backup catcher he might accrue 0.5 WAR. Might.

So why would a rebuilding team give up a C prospect (who, by the way, was a fourth round overslot pick, since Teagarden's pedigree has been referenced as well) for a half a win improvement in the standings?

Because the powers that be here, Showalter, believe in Teagarden. It's plain and simple, for some it is easy to hammer them for this move and I understand it. But coaches have people they believe in and often they give these guys opportunities. I for one am going to trust Showalter and will not bemoan the loss of a C prospect.

[Ven6]

The point is that, by definition, there are replacement-level (0 WAR) players available for nothing. And even if Teagarden is a 2 WAR player, as a backup catcher he might accrue 0.5 WAR. Might.

So why would a rebuilding team give up a C prospect (who, by the way, was a fourth round overslot pick, since Teagarden's pedigree has been referenced as well) for a half a win improvement in the standings?

Plus said C prospect had an arm injury and said backup catcher is good (according to DD and BS) at handling the team's most precious asset--young pitchers.

[Can_of_corn]

The point is that, by definition, there are replacement-level (0 WAR) players available for nothing. And even if Teagarden is a 2 WAR player, as a backup catcher he might accrue 0.5 WAR. Might.

So why would a rebuilding team give up a C prospect (who, by the way, was a fourth round overslot pick, since Teagarden's pedigree has been referenced as well) for a half a win improvement in the standings?

Isn't expecting replacement level out of a backup catcher a bit of a stretch? Moeller provided 0 WAR in '09 but he cost 800k. He is the only O's backup catcher to hit 0 WAR since Sal Fasano in '05.

I also think that having some continuity in the backup catcher position could be helpful. I understand it is not a sure thing but Teagarden could easily be the O's backup for the next three seasons. I think it is worth seeing if there is an advantage to not picking up a scrap heap body on a year by year basis.

[Ven6]

I think it is worth seeing if there is an advantage to not picking up a scrap heap body on a year by year basis.

Plus there's this excellent point. Especially when the position works with and has to build up young pitchers.

[Larry18]

Because the powers that be here, Showalter, believe in Teagarden. It's plain and simple, for some it is easy to hammer them for this move and I understand it. But coaches have people they believe in and often they give these guys opportunities. I for one am going to trust Showalter and will not bemoan the loss of a C prospect.

This. We could pick a 20 year old Johnny Bench off the waiver wire but if Buck didn't trust what good would it do? I'm pretty conifident that the powers that be looked at the available FA before settling on TT. In the end, I don't care what offensive numbers this guy puts up, I want Buck to rest/DH Weiters more. 1,150 Innings is too many for a catcher IMO

[SrMeowMeow]

This. We could pick a 20 year old Johnny Bench off the waiver wire but if Buck didn't trust what good would it do? I'm pretty conifident that the powers that be looked at the available FA before settling on TT. In the end, I don't care what offensive numbers this guy puts up, I want Buck to rest/DH Weiters more. 1,150 Innings is too many for a catcher IMO

If Buck doesn't trust a 20-year-old Johnny Bench then he's an idiot. I don't care if the catcher throws knives at the pitchers while they sleep if he's gonna hit like Bench.

Isn't expecting replacement level out of a backup catcher a bit of a stretch? Moeller provided 0 WAR in '09 but he cost 800k. He is the only O's backup catcher to hit 0 WAR since Sal Fasano in '05.

I also think that having some continuity in the backup catcher position could be helpful. I understand it is not a sure thing but Teagarden could easily be the O's backup for the next three seasons. I think it is worth seeing if there is an advantage to not picking up a scrap heap body on a year by year basis.

Replacement level is replacement level. You can get guys for a projected 0 WAR for nothing every offseason, since that's how WAR works.

[Can_of_corn]

If Buck doesn't trust a 20-year-old Johnny Bench then he's an idiot. I don't care if the catcher throws knives at the pitchers while they sleep if he's gonna hit like Bench.

Replacement level is replacement level. You can get guys for a projected 0 WAR for nothing every offseason, since that's how WAR works.

Except the O's have not. The O's backup catchers tend to come in at about -.6 WAR. Replacement value is not a floor.

A .5 WAR catcher is around a 1 WAR improvement over what the O's normally throw out there.

[Frobby]

The point is that, by definition, there are replacement-level (0 WAR) players available for nothing. And even if Teagarden is a 2 WAR player, as a backup catcher he might accrue 0.5 WAR. Might.

So why would a rebuilding team give up a C prospect (who, by the way, was a fourth round overslot pick, since Teagarden's pedigree has been referenced as well) for a half a win improvement in the standings?

How much WAR do you think most relievers are worth? As someone pointed out, Matt Albers has been worth about 1.7 WAR in a five-year career. George Sherrill, who I'd call a very good reliever, has been worth 5.6 WAR in an 8 year career. Jeremy Accardo, 2.3 WAR in a 7-year career. Chris Ray, 3.4 in 6 seasons. Chad Bradford, 8.7 in a 12-year career.

Bottom line, except for the closers, relievers fall into the 0.3-0.8 WAR/yr range. That's what Henry hopes to be.

As to back-up catchers, decent to good ones can be in the 0.5-1.0 category. Teagarden is +1.5 in a 3-year career.

To me, it's a pretty even trade.

[SrMeowMeow]

How much WAR do you think most relievers are worth? As someone pointed out, Matt Albers has been worth about 1.7 WAR in a five-year career. George Sherrill, who I'd call a very good reliever, has been worth 5.6 WAR in an 8 year career. Jeremy Accardo, 2.3 WAR in a 7-year career. Chris Ray, 3.4 in 6 seasons. Chad Bradford, 8.7 in a 12-year career.

Bottom line, except for the closers, relievers fall into the 0.3-0.8 WAR/yr range. That's what Henry hopes to be.

As to back-up catchers, decent to good ones can be in the 0.5-1.0 category. Teagarden is +1.5 in a 3-year career.

To me, it's a pretty even trade.

Like I said way earlier, this is such a minor move that what we're debating about is some sliver of goodness centered around an even trade. I think the trade is a tiny fraction negative. But it really doesn't matter at all. At this point, I'm just looking forward to seeing what Teagarden can do.

[Sports Guy]

Because the powers that be here, Showalter, believe in Teagarden. It's plain and simple, for some it is easy to hammer them for this move and I understand it. But coaches have people they believe in and often they give these guys opportunities. I for one am going to trust Showalter and will not bemoan the loss of a C prospect.

But why overpay for him?

As I have said, I don't care that they traded Henry and I am glad they added TT. I agree with everyone who talks about his POTENTIAL to be one of the better back up C in baseball. He has a pedigree in the minors and was very highly rated just a few years ago.

That is the type of guy we should take a shot for.

But to give up as much as we did? That's where I(and a few others) have a problem with it.

You say he is a C prospect...So what? Most relief prospects are B-/C+ prospects...It doesn't make them less valuable or a poor prospect but since they will be role players, they just don't get high grades like every day players or starters will get.

That doesn't take anything away from Henry, his solid MiL numbers, his age or anything like that.

And while I like TT, I don't like him enough to trade a decent prospect PLUS another player for him. He isn't that good.

This seems to me to be a situation where the Rangers took advantage of Buck, knowing he liked and wanted TT.

[MikeAD]

But to give up as much as we did? That's where I(and a few others) have a problem with it.

You say he is a C prospect...So what? Most relief prospects are B-/C+ prospects...It doesn't make them less valuable or a poor prospect but since they will be role players, they just don't get high grades like every day players or starters will get.

That doesn't take anything away from Henry, his solid MiL numbers, his age or anything like that.

And while I like TT, I don't like him enough to trade a decent prospect PLUS another player for him. He isn't that good.

This seems to me to be a situation where the Rangers took advantage of Buck, knowing he liked and wanted TT.

Exactly and I've been saying that I hope this isn't indicative of trades moving forward, especially if Buck has 'nuggets' elsewhere he'd like to acquire. This is a move (and similar moves like this) that can be done by giving up a player you can

t keep or a PTBNL.

We have a world of opportunity right now in the trade market and we need to be as efficient as possible.

[Sports Guy]

Exactly and I've been saying that I hope this isn't indicative of trades moving forward, especially if Buck has 'nuggets' elsewhere he'd like to acquire. This is a move (and similar moves like this) that can be done by giving up a player you can

t keep or a PTBNL.

We have a world of opportunity right now in the trade market and we need to be as efficient as possible.

Yep. Everyone always asks, what do the Orioles have to trade?

Well, here is a guy that could have been used as an add on player to a bigger deal..say the Orioles version of Tony Butler or someone like that.

Also, as I said, we traded worse prospects for Hardy. These guys do have some value...I just don't see how you trade them for a back up C, even if it is a catcher that has the POTENTIAL of being a good back up.

[andrewrickli]

Why does a trade for a back up catcher get 23 pages? Think if we signed Cespedes...50 pages later...

[24fps]

May trading Randy Henry for Taylor Teagarden be the worst of DD's crimes over the next three years.

23 pages and counting.... The Winter Meetings can't begin soon enough.

[Satyr3206]

A lot of pages considering he's a back up catcher for a few maybe's.