Dave Cameron: Big Ticket Signings Don't Drive Attendance

[Dannyboy]

Teams that usually go out and get premium talent are ready to win. They have a foundation or very strong core in place and all they need is a premium bat or arm to put them over the top.

[Frobby]

Star players = more wins, more wins = more attendance

First of all, star players doesn't necessarily lead to more wins -- see ARod in Texas. Second of all, it has to be a meaningful number of more wins. I don't think the Orioles needle moves at all until they are a .500+ team. Nobody is going to be excited if the team wins 75 games instead of 69. Even at .500, you aren't going to see huge increases. <6 games out on September 1? Then you are going to see a big-time increase.

[SammyBirdland]

First of all, star players doesn't necessarily lead to more wins -- see ARod in Texas. Second of all, it has to be a meaningful number of more wins. I don't think the Orioles needle moves at all until they are a .500+ team. Nobody is going to be excited if the team wins 75 games instead of 69. Even at .500, you aren't going to see huge increases. <6 games out on September 1? Then you are going to see a big-time increase.

True, but Texas only had one superstar when they had A-Rod.

Now, you take a superstar like Prince Fielder and pair him with superstars like Taylor Teagarden and Dana Eveland, that's a winning formula right there, my friend.

[CA-ORIOLE]

True, but Texas only had one superstar when they had A-Rod.

Now, you take a superstar like Prince Fielder and pair him with superstars like Taylor Teagarden and Dana Eveland, that's a winning formula right there, my friend.

That's what we need. Some humor.

[JTrea81]

First of all, star players doesn't necessarily lead to more wins -- see ARod in Texas. Second of all, it has to be a meaningful number of more wins. I don't think the Orioles needle moves at all until they are a .500+ team. Nobody is going to be excited if the team wins 75 games instead of 69. Even at .500, you aren't going to see huge increases. <6 games out on September 1? Then you are going to see a big-time increase.

This is already a 75 win team IMO as I've pointed out numerous times. Guys like Pie, Bell, Hudson and the ragtag bunch of arms that we threw out there brought us down.

If you take just Jones, Wieters and Hardy, Guthrie and Britton assuming no improvement with everybody else as a replacement player we are a 60 win team.

I think we can get 15 more wins out of the rest of the 20 players on the roster, again factoring no improvement in.

Adding two premium players would put us at 85 wins, factoring no internal improvement.

This team is not as bad as people think it is. They just need premium talent and a few solid players to push them where they need to go.

[TakebackOPACY]

This is already a 75 win team IMO as I've pointed out numerous times. Guys like Pie, Bell, Hudson and the ragtag bunch of arms that we threw out there brought us down.

If you take just Jones, Wieters and Hardy, Guthrie and Britton assuming no improvement with everybody else as a replacement player we are a 60 win team.

I think we can get 15 more wins out of the rest of the 20 players on the roster, again factoring no improvement in.

Adding two premium players would put us at 85 wins, factoring no internal improvement.

This team is not as bad as people think it is. They just need premium talent and a few solid players to push them where they need to go.

At this moment, the improvements are:

• Hope Roberts is healthy
• Hope Chris Davis can do something.
• Upgrade from Tatum to Teagarden for hopefully 30-35 out of 162 games.

The likes of Pie, Bell (65 plate appearances last year), and Hudson (29 plate appearances last year) haven't been replaced by anyone yet unless we're thinking Pie's at bats go to Reimold.

[Moose Milligan]

Throughout O's history, save for 1992-2000, the organization has had one of the lowest star/fan ratios in baseball. The 1982 Orioles won 94 games, had four Hall of Famers, and finished 8th in the AL in attendance. The '71 Orioles, a dynastic team full of Hall of Famers, on the heels of two straight World Series, got all the way up to third in the league, then promptly fell back to 6th the next year, and 9th the year after.

Four hall of famers? I can count 3....Murray, Cal and Palmer. And Earl, I guess that's 4.

[Moose Milligan]

This is already a 75 win team IMO as I've pointed out numerous times. Guys like Pie, Bell, Hudson and the ragtag bunch of arms that we threw out there brought us down.

If you take just Jones, Wieters and Hardy, Guthrie and Britton assuming no improvement with everybody else as a replacement player we are a 60 win team.

I think we can get 15 more wins out of the rest of the 20 players on the roster, again factoring no improvement in.

Adding two premium players would put us at 85 wins, factoring no internal improvement.

This team is not as bad as people think it is. They just need premium talent and a few solid players to push them where they need to go.

Dude, this is NOT a 75 win team. You've spent the past three years bashing the hell out of this team and now all of a sudden they're not that bad? Come on dude, stop trying to backpeddle on all of your rave-outs for the past three years of MacPhailure.

[JTrea81]

Dude, this is NOT a 75 win team. You've spent the past three years bashing the hell out of this team and now all of a sudden they're not that bad? Come on dude, stop trying to backpeddle on all of your rave-outs for the past three years of MacPhailure.

As I've stated numerous times, I believed and still believe in this core. MacPhail did not, or at least not enough to take risks to build a winning team around them.

My arguments have always been for MacPhail to show confidence in the players and take the team to the next level with an investment in premium talent.

And this is a 75 win team if you'd judge them not solely on their record but the talent that this team has.

[Moose Milligan]

As I've stated numerous times, I believed and still believe in this core. MacPhail did not, or at least not enough to take risks to build a winning team around them.

My arguments have always been for MacPhail to show confidence in the players and take the team to the next level with an investment in premium talent.

And this is a 75 win team if you'd judge them not solely on their record but the talent that this team has.

Stop living in the abstract and prove that this is a 75 win team based on talent alone.

If you really believed it was a 75 win team, you'd turn your anger towards Buck for not getting the most out of the talent he has at his disposal.

[GoldGlove21]

First of all, star players doesn't necessarily lead to more wins -- see ARod in Texas. Second of all, it has to be a meaningful number of more wins. I don't think the Orioles needle moves at all until they are a .500+ team. Nobody is going to be excited if the team wins 75 games instead of 69. Even at .500, you aren't going to see huge increases. <6 games out on September 1? Then you are going to see a big-time increase.

I agree Frobby, but it is hard to field a .500 product without a premium player. The Nats finally got near .500 and although they did it without Strasburg he might have pushed them into the playoffs if he was healty all season. The difference between them and us was pitching and it will continue to be pitching IMO. Strasburg is an ace and those are hard to come by. Our best pitcher is probably a #3 and the closest thing that we have to an ace was drafted last June. Sooner or later the Orioles are going to need to pay for pitching. If they pay in prospects or millions they will need to pay to compete in the AL East in 2012 and 2013 IMO.

[GoldGlove21]

Stop living in the abstract and prove that this is a 75 win team based on talent alone.

If you really believed it was a 75 win team, you'd turn your anger towards Buck for not getting the most out of the talent he has at his disposal.

It is hard to argue with some of what he said Moose. At what point does our organization look at a rotation of Guthrie, Britton, Hunter, Matusz, and Arrieta and realize that it is hard to field a quality starting rotation when your best pitcher is a #3 on a good team and the other 4/5's of you startes make less than $3M combined. Fielding a $10M staff of starters is a good thing if you could do it and compete (Tampa), but it is not the norm. Matusz was drafted high because most thought that he was a safe bet to get to the majors and perform at a high level. Really can't out his performance on Buck. Arrieta got hurt and that is not Buck's fault either in all probability. Guthrie is in the last year of his deal and ownership did not out DD in a good position to deal him. That really isn't Buck's fault either. Players play and managers try to get the best out of them. With that said it is easy to see why the Orioles are not winning, many of the guys that we really like are either just not good enough or not performing up to their abilities.

Couple that with the possibility/probability that a restrictive owner is mandating that players like Jones, Hardy, Markakis and Wieters are fan favorites and should not be moved and that payroll needs to stay below $75M-$85M and it easy to see why it is difficult to turn our organization around. This is ignoring the fact that we ignored some of the more important exploits in the game for a while (International talent, increased overslots, Comp Pics).

[JTrea81]

Stop living in the abstract and prove that this is a 75 win team based on talent alone.

If you really believed it was a 75 win team, you'd turn your anger towards Buck for not getting the most out of the talent he has at his disposal.

Buck did get what he could out of what he was given. The problem was the poor depth the Orioles had and the compostion of the roster which fell on MacPhail.

The Orioles had a lot of FA signings that were a poor allocation of resources ironically because MacPhail didn't want to take a bigger risk on premium talent.

If you want proof, I've already shown how much sub-replacement talent dragged us down here. Matusz and Pie cost us 3 wins themselves.

[HokieOrange]

Buck did get what he could out of what he was given. The problem was the poor depth the Orioles had and the compostion of the roster which fell on MacPhail.

The Orioles had a lot of FA signings that were a poor allocation of resources ironically because MacPhail didn't want to take a bigger risk on premium talent.

If you want proof, I've already shown how much sub-replacement talent dragged us down here. Matusz and Pie cost us 3 wins themselves.

And many people already told you that all teams have negative WAR players and it isn't as simple as eliminating them from your roster.

[GoldGlove21]

Buck did get what he could out of what he was given. The problem was the poor depth the Orioles had and the compostion of the roster which fell on MacPhail.

The Orioles had a lot of FA signings that were a poor allocation of resources ironically because MacPhail didn't want to take a bigger risk on premium talent.

If you want proof, I've already shown how much sub-replacement talent dragged us down here. Matusz and Pie cost us 3 wins themselves.

The Orioles had a lot of FA signings that were a poor allocation of resources ironically because MacPhail didn't want to take a bigger risk on premium talent.

If you want proof, I've already shown how much sub-replacement talent dragged us down here. Matusz and Pie cost us 3 wins themselves.

I am with you with a lot of things JTrea, but while MacPhail failed at fixing the organization I feel that he did some very good things to better the team through trades. Hardy, Jones, and Reynolds are here and all of those trades were a slam dunk when put in perspective. Hunter, Davis and Andino will be depth for Buck in 2012 and that is MacPhail's doing as well. Until I see a GM bring in a top notch free agent I will continue to assume that PA is authorizing signings. The Orioles are much better than what MacPhail was handed and in some cases his hand was forced (Tejada)

I like that DD is open and honest and he has brought some good baseball people over to work in the organization. I feel that the problem with the Orioles resides with the owner and we have seen more examples of Angelos being the problem instead of the solution. You do not fire Davey Johnson and why in the world do you send Miller packing? Why do you ignore some of the Oriole greats from the past (Brooks Robinson) and employee others (Jim Palmer)? Why do you veto trades? How come you feel that a pitcher is not worth big money because they only play every 4th or 5th day?

We interview DiPoto and he takes the Angels GM a week later than lands Pujols and CJ Wilson while spending $300M+ over the next 10 seasons. Those deals might look poor by the time the deals are completed, but if the Angels win a World Series or two than we can argue that the deals were worth it IMO. Did DiPoto get them because he is an awesome GM or because Wilson was from the area and the Rangers made a weak push for him? How about Pujols taking the biggest deal that he was offered while getting to play for a good team? The answer on the surface is that it doesn't matter since both guys are now Angels and not Orioles, but the problem is that Moreno is saying go get these guys and Angelos is saying to go get them as long as they are in a certain dollar range. I do not feel good about the Orioles moving forward and that bothers me everyday.