"Defending the Status Quo?"

[BilboBaggins]

And btw, status quo would mean you are happy with a team riding the fence and don't want significant changes.

No one meets that criteria...So that's just another example of how poor these arguments are.

It's not necessarily a direct argument for continued losing or being anti-change.

It's the argument that not making big changes is preferable to some weird and unsustainable gradual improvement that has been the standard operating procedure for the Orioles front office for the last decade.

If someone is arguing that making big money free agent signings is "bad" because the back end of the deal will be for a declining player are missing out on the possibility that this player can be traded for big pieces later on because there are some other teams out there besides the Orioles who trade for a declining veteran with big name status.

And if this is far-fetched, a big name signing will go a long way to change the awful perception of the team that currently exists within MLB.

Everyone knows the Orioles are considered to be a train wreck of an organization. One of the reasons why is that we lack an administrative philosophy that filters down to the single-A level.

If you consider signing a big name free agent with major talent to be a horrible move for the team, tell me then, what is the alternative? Something different from the same ideas I've read here in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011?

The opposite of making changes (the change in question is reversing the unwillingness to sign a major free agent to plug glaring holes we need) in this case is keeping things the same as they always have been.

And if it was the only time this argument came up, I'd believe that you guys had a point, but grasping onto this point of view in the face of repeated catastrophic failure defies logic.

Saying that we are using strawmen, or can't read, or have some desire to be a troll is a nice (and usually effective) tactic to cover up your bizarre insistence upon a method that has failed 14 times in a row.

[Sports Guy]

Saying that we are using strawmen, or can't read, or have some desire to be a troll is a nice (and usually effective) tactic to cover up your bizarre insistence upon a method that has failed 14 times in a row.

And yet again, you look very foolish.

For you to think that we are saying we should use the same method of the last 14 years shows exactly what I have been saying.

1) Your inability to comprehend common sense thoughts is poor.

2) Your reading comprehension is poor.

3) You aren't very knowledgable.

BTW, most of us are ok with signing Fielder up to a certain point. What most of us are not ok with is signing him to a really stupid contract just because there are fans such as yourself who feel we have to sign a big name player and all will be right with the world.

[Orioles0615]

Isn't that status quo not doing anything to help the team now or for the future and just praying everything clicks, that is the status quo, that is what we have been doing and that is what makes us lose 90 games every year, and I don't think anyone defends that. Remind me if I am wrong but I do not think we have ever done a proper rebuild, just half ass attempts of them.

[sakata_catching]

I don't know if you're MSK or not, but I will admit you write just like him.

I got my wrist slapped for pretty much accusing Bilbo point-blank of being MSK in sock-puppet mode.

To me, the similarities — in style and substance — between the two posters are far too close to be mere coincidence. But I'll let others draw their own conclusions:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/98349-Adam-Jones-race-and-misrepresentations?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/87328-Schizophrenia-on-the-Hangout?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/85406-The-1st-Amendment-and-the-Orioles-Hangout-Message-Boards?highlight=

[DrungoHazewood]

And if it was the only time this argument came up, I'd believe that you guys had a point, but grasping onto this point of view in the face of repeated catastrophic failure defies logic.

Saying that we are using strawmen, or can't read, or have some desire to be a troll is a nice (and usually effective) tactic to cover up your bizarre insistence upon a method that has failed 14 times in a row.

If you think the Orioles have actually built a good major league organization and a pipeline of young talent at any point in the last 15 (or even 30+ years) you're delusional. That's what the "status quo" advocates are asking for, and anything that stands between today's organization and a good one is counterproductive. $150M or $200M spent on short-term fixes is counter-productive unless there's a huge pile of MASN cash hidden in someone's mattress and a magic fairy is going to convince Angelos to spend it.

[Fan4Life]

I got my wrist slapped for pretty much accusing Bilbo point-blank of being MSK in sock-puppet mode.

To me, the similarities — in style and substance — between the two posters are far too close to be mere coincidence. But I'll let others draw their own conclusions:

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/98349-Adam-Jones-race-and-misrepresentations?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/87328-Schizophrenia-on-the-Hangout?highlight=

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/85406-The-1st-Amendment-and-the-Orioles-Hangout-Message-Boards?highlight=

If they aren't indulged, they'd just go away.

[carolinaoriole]

No one here is for status quo. Everyone is for improving the team. The disagreement is in how to improve the team.

[sakata_catching]

If they aren't indulged, they'd just go away.

Or, go away and come back, poorly disguised.

[BilboBaggins]

Or, go away and come back, poorly disguised.

I'm done with this MSK thing. You guys would rather engage in baseless conspiracy theories than talk about the Orioles.

I guess that's what happens when our team is awful.

[BilboBaggins]

BTW, the team hasn't even followed the same method over the 14 years so all parts of your accusation hold no water. Before the 2004 season we signed Tejada, Lopez, and Palmeiro who were three top free agents in one offseason. There are many other variations in approach during the 14 years but that is the most obvious one in regards to your argument.

Yes, I'm aware that we signed those guys back then, but it was a different kind of failure - we spent on free agents while allowing the farm system to become a big rotten apple. I don't know if this is true or not, but it feels like those ideas are mutually exclusive around here. I don't understand why we can't do both? That's my general premise and a few others feel the same way.

I don't recall advocating for the Orioles to spend 10/240 on Fielder. That would be a tragic and stupid thing to do.

I don't know you so I don't have an issue with you and you seem to be reasonable and so far you haven't dropped to the level of personal attacks like a few others have. I don't believe anyone is putting you into a pot but I don't understand the resistance to discussing and/or advocating for the acquisition of major free agent talent.

It just seems like no matter who is available, there's always the choir of handwringing and doubt about making any moves at all above the level of the Everlands and Eatons of the world.

[sakata_catching]

Talk about the Orioles, then, rather than constructing strawmen to divide the board against itself.

[BilboBaggins]

Talk about the Orioles, then, rather than constructing strawmen to divide the board against itself.

How about dropping the sock-puppet nonsense? That has gotten really old, really fast.

And for the record, I've no desire to "divide the board," that happens on its own whenever the discussion of signing major free agents comes up. I didn't start the argument/discussion, I happen to fall on the "wrong" side of the issue as far as some of the OH regulars are concerned.

[Frobby]

How about dropping the sock-puppet nonsense? That has gotten really old, really fast.

And for the record, I've no desire to "divide the board," that happens on its own whenever the discussion of signing major free agents comes up. I didn't start the argument/discussion, I happen to fall on the "wrong" side of the issue as far as some of the OH regulars are concerned.

Really? It seems to me that this thread is designed to do exactly that. Just read the thread title, or the opening post. It doesn't discuss why you like some move or another. It's expressly designed to criticize the posters who disagree with your position.

[DrungoHazewood]

How about dropping the sock-puppet nonsense? That has gotten really old, really fast.

And for the record, I've no desire to "divide the board," that happens on its own whenever the discussion of signing major free agents comes up. I didn't start the argument/discussion, I happen to fall on the "wrong" side of the issue as far as some of the OH regulars are concerned.

Here's a question. With Peter Angelos owning the team, which do you think is more likely:

1) Duquette convinces Angelos to spend hundreds of $millions on free agents to try to prop up their crappy organization.

2) Duquette convinces Angelos to do like the Blue Jays and bring in buckeloads of amateur talent, build a real development organization, all for pennies compared to 1).

IMO, Angelos simply won't spend money. So the likely case is 3) continue to be awful. But 2) is far more likely than 1).

[BilboBaggins]

Really? It seems to me that this thread is designed to do exactly that. Just read the thread title, or the opening post. It doesn't discuss why you like some move or another. It's expressly designed to criticize the posters who disagree with your position.

Okay, so if that is the case, why is it that those who advocate spending on free agents are often told that it's going to destroy the team. Said discussions then devolve into conspiracy theories and personal attacks.

I guess this thread might antagonize some of those folks, but I really wanted to get this out into the open and kill it so what we can all feel comfortable posting without immediately being told that making positive changes will stop us from ever competing.