"Defending the Status Quo?"

[BilboBaggins]

By your definition I am a pretty big status quo guy.

Your argument seems to come down to two things IMO:

1) Free agents like Fielder would help the O's win more games. Duh. From a competitive stand point I agree. Whether it would make the O's into a team similar to the Rangers when ARod was there is debatable. ARod took up so much of the budget that it hurt the team. And remember Buck was the manager and helped to push to trade ARod. I doubt Buck will try to put the O's in that situation.

2) Angelos could spend more money on the major league team if he wanted to. Again Duh. I agree he could but history tells us he is not going to without revenues increasing first.

Some owners like Moreno of the Angels will spend big betting that it will make his team better and raise revenues. He is willing to take the risk of taking on debt. Angelos is not. Angelos seems to like the model of Tampa where the team does well first then the payroll is increased once revenue is there to support it.

To rile agains Hangout posters because they understand the reality of where the O's are under Angelos is really unfair. The fans can't change Angelos. That is the fact of the matter. Most of us understand the situation and try to think within the bounds of the way the O's franchise works. To do otherwise it not dealing with reality.

So I for one am fine with your argument that the O's would be better off spending more money and signing big free agents. Good luck in making that happen.

Okay, I do get what you're saying. Your point is extremely valid.

But doesn't that sound like you've pretty much conceded that nothing will happen under Angelos?

[Austin]

Okay, I do get what you're saying. Your point is extremely valid.

But doesn't that sound like you've pretty much conceded that nothing will happen under Angelos?

I think a lot of us have said that already. This team isn't going anywhere under Angelos unless we're extremely lucky or extremely efficient.

[wildcard]

Okay, I do get what you're saying. Your point is extremely valid.

But doesn't that sound like you've pretty much conceded that nothing will happen under Angelos?

No question that Angelos' approach to funding the team makes it harder to compete. However, it is not impossible to win with a 87M budget.

MacPhail was on the right track IMO. Get a bunch of talented young players that are cheap and stay with them as the grow together. Unfortunately, BRob slams himself in the head. Scott hurts his shoulder. And the young pitching takes a step back. None of that is management's fault.

DDs way of dealing with such injuries and non preformance is with numbers. Add several more pitchers. If the team has 8 or 9 starters maybe 4 or 5 of them will click. Maybe instead of Bergy, Simon, Atkins, Reyes etc being the backups Eveland and Wada can do a better job in that role.

DD's been accumulating 2B/3B types thinking that out of Davis, Andino, Flaherty, Antonelli and Adams there is enough talent to improve the positions.

DD is going for cheap depth while working within the budget and hoping the O's core players become impact players. Will it work? We'll see.

[McNulty]

As Trea prepares to exit stage left, his protege re-enters the limelight.

Ugh.

[BilboBaggins]

As Trea prepares to exit stage left, his protege re-enters the limelight.

Ugh.

Yea, where does EddieMurrayfan get the nerve to express his opinion on a message board?

:rolleyestf:

#sarcasm

[sakata_catching]

As Trea prepares to exit stage left, his protege re-enters the limelight.

Ugh.

[Sports Guy]

Yea, where does EddieMurrayfan get the nerve to express his opinion on a message board?

:rolleyestf:

#sarcasm

Well, you guys are going a long way to prove the fallacy that an opinion can not be wrong.

So, you have that going for you!

[BilboBaggins]

Well, you guys are going a long way to prove the fallacy that an opinion can not be wrong.

So, you have that going for you!

Who said that opinions can't be wrong? I can't speak for anyone else who agrees that we should spend on a quality free agent.

The divisive part of the discussion comes when those disagreements over the Orioles become personal attacks. So far, it's been a decent discussion with the exception of a few guys whose immaturity shines through in various ways.

[Florida_Osfan]

Who said that opinions can't be wrong? I can't speak for anyone else who agrees that we should spend on a quality free agent.

The divisive part of the discussion comes when those disagreements over the Orioles become personal attacks. So far, it's been a decent discussion with the exception of a few guys whose immaturity shines through in various ways.

Yeah, speak of the devil. Perhaps you should reread your opening post. You started a thread calling people who disagree with you "status quo" thinkers, which is the definition of divisive posting. I'm still not convinced that your point isn't more than just being smug for the sake of it. I could be wrong, but I haven't read one response from either you or EMF that says otherwise.

Regardless of whether SG or others attack your reading comprehension, it doesn't detract from the fact that you started a thread that is pretty overtly splitting the board into two groups: people with whom you agree (the figured it out crowd), and those with whom you disagree (no more than "status quo" fans).

But yes, it's not you. It's everyone else.

[BilboBaggins]

Yeah, speak of the devil. Perhaps you should reread your opening post. You started a thread calling people who disagree with you "status quo" thinkers, which is the definition of divisive posting. I'm still not convinced that your point isn't more than just being smug for the sake of it. I could be wrong, but I haven't read one response from either you or EMF that says otherwise.

Regardless of whether SG or others attack your reading comprehension, it doesn't detract from the fact that you started a thread that is pretty overtly splitting the board into two groups: people with whom you agree (the figured it out crowd), and those with whom you disagree (no more than "status quo" fans).

But yes, it's not you. It's everyone else.

I've explained myself several times. If posters got the impression that I wanted to create a divisive situation, then I openly apologize if that's how it was interpreted. I wanted to know why some folks were so opposed to signing major free agents once they become available.

We've discussed it, I now see where these guys are coming from and partially agreed with them.

The continued baiting is pointless and childish.

[Can_of_corn]

I just want to state that I don't know anyone on this board, with the possible exception of Cindy, that is happy with the status quo.

We all just have different visions of what changes we would like to see be made.

[BilboBaggins]

I just want to state that I don't know anyone on this board, with the possible exception of Cindy, that is happy with the status quo.

We all just have different visions of what changes we would like to see be made.

All I have ever seen Cindy say is "not my perfect one" surrounded by smiley face emoticons and hearts.

[Moose Milligan]

I've explained myself several times. If posters got the impression that I wanted to create a divisive situation, then I openly apologize if that's how it was interpreted. I wanted to know why some folks were so opposed to signing major free agents once they become available.

We've discussed it, I now see where these guys are coming from and partially agreed with them.

The continued baiting is pointless and childish.

I just don't understand how Prince Fielder or any high priced FA makes this team demonstrably better in 2012.

Take into consideration that "The Calvary" has to come through for us to make any significant strides in the first place when thinking about the following: Do you trust the Orioles to develop pitching prospects? Do you really like what you've seen out of Tillman and Bergesen? You also have to think that Matusz might not be the ace we were expecting.

Assume that there's a slight improvement in the Orioles pitching in 2012....but nothing huge. How would Prince Fielder make us a playoff team? Would you expect the same cast of pitchers to make progress in 2013?

Don't get me wrong, it'd be fun to see Prince Fielder in an Orioles uniform. If we signed him tomorrow, I'd probably be excited.

I just don't see how he makes us a winning team anytime in the near future, not when the rest of this team is so pathetic. This isn't basketball or football where one player like LeBron James or Peyton Manning can make or break a team and I think a lot of the posters on here forget that. LeBron and Manning get to influence a game much more than someone does with 4 at bats.

I've also resigned to the fact that the Orioles won't be good for a very long time. I watch because I love watching baseball and I cheer for the individual players on the team...but as far as expectations, I don't have any. I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

[Florida_Osfan]

I've explained myself several times. If posters got the impression that I wanted to create a divisive situation, then I openly apologize if that's how it was interpreted. I wanted to know why some folks were so opposed to signing major free agents once they become available.

We've discussed it, I now see where these guys are coming from and partially agreed with them.

The continued baiting is pointless and childish.

You mean, like your thread?

Back to the conversation, what many that want the FO to sign big name FA fail to explain is how one or two signings will really help in either the beginning or by the end of that contract.

Say you sign Fielder and he provides us 5 oWAR each year of his contract. We're a 68 win team that will not improve enough to contend. Say we sign a TOR starter and he provides us with another 5 wins in the years of his contract. Where does that get us? Our rotation sucks, our hitting is league average (as is), and we still have a farm system that is nearly replete of ML talent (outside the Bundy bros, Machado, and Shoop).

So, where are we? We spent a ton of money (that you can't even prove exists) on players that won't make us contenders, and we have no depth because nearly 40% of our budget is tied up in 2-3 players.

Then what's the plan? Do we blow it up and leave the fanbase even more frustrated? I just don't see how splurging on Fielder is going to help. I'd love to have him. But our farm system still has never been properly managed, and there is hope that DD will right the ship.

But this team is freakin' terrible. So bad that two FA signings, a lost draft pick, and marginal increases in wins is not enough to bring back the disillusioned fans that gave up after years of losing. Sorry I'm not sold on the "spend, spend, spend" idea, either.

[maybenxtyr]

I just don't understand how Prince Fielder or any high priced FA makes this team demonstrably better in 2012.

Take into consideration that "The Calvary" has to come through for us to make any significant strides in the first place when thinking about the following: Do you trust the Orioles to develop pitching prospects? Do you really like what you've seen out of Tillman and Bergesen? You also have to think that Matusz might not be the ace we were expecting.

Assume that there's a slight improvement in the Orioles pitching in 2012....but nothing huge. How would Prince Fielder make us a playoff team? Would you expect the same cast of pitchers to make progress in 2013?

Don't get me wrong, it'd be fun to see Prince Fielder in an Orioles uniform. If we signed him tomorrow, I'd probably be excited.

I just don't see how he makes us a winning team anytime in the near future, not when the rest of this team is so pathetic. This isn't basketball or football where one player like LeBron James or Peyton Manning can make or break a team and I think a lot of the posters on here forget that. LeBron and Manning get to influence a game much more than someone does with 4 at bats.

I've also resigned to the fact that the Orioles won't be good for a very long time. I watch because I love watching baseball and I cheer for the individual players on the team...but as far as expectations, I don't have any. I'm not sure how anyone could think otherwise.

I enjoy baseball. If the Orioles win it's a plus. My only problem with the FA debate is; if a player fills a position of need and the team can afford the deal then do it. Buying a high dollar FA does not mean they can not shop players and improve in other areas. I guess my biggest complaint is most people here feel there is only one way to build a team. Either FA, ar trades. Really as bad as the situation in Baltimore is, it will take more than trades, or FA.

An example of what I would like to see is: maybe sign Prince, and move Nick. Several teams would be interested in Nick even with the contract. The downside is a couple of them play in the same division. Also continue looking to trade AJ is a good way to acquire talent. Guthrie would probably be worth more at the deadline if he has a good season. However the way this team has tried to improve has not accomplished a whole lot. I really just wish they would pick some direction and start working a plan.