"Defending the Status Quo?"

[Moose Milligan]

I enjoy baseball. If the Orioles win it's a plus. My only problem with the FA debate is; if a player fills a position of need and the team can afford the deal then do it. Buying a high dollar FA does not mean they can not shop players and improve in other areas. I guess my biggest complaint is most people here feel there is only one way to build a team. Either FA, ar trades. Really as bad as the situation in Baltimore is, it will take more than trades, or FA.

An example of what I would like to see is: maybe sign Prince, and move Nick. Several teams would be interested in Nick even with the contract. The downside is a couple of them play in the same division. Also continue looking to trade AJ is a good way to acquire talent. Guthrie would probably be worth more at the deadline if he has a good season. However the way this team has tried to improve has not accomplished a whole lot. I really just wish they would pick some direction and start working a plan.

Agree with this partially. I'm not anti FA, I'm just more in favor of it when the times right. If we were an 85 win team I'd be all about signing Prince Fielder right now. I'd be all JTrea about it.

Trades, development, FA...it's all important...unfortunately we suck at 2/3's of it and have for quite awhile. Therefore, it doesn't matter who we sign in FA.

[EddieMurrayfan]

Agree with this partially. I'm not anti FA, I'm just more in favor of it when the times right. If we were an 85 win team I'd be all about signing Prince Fielder right now. I'd be all JTrea about it.

Trades, development, FA...it's all important...unfortunately we suck at 2/3's of it and have for quite awhile. Therefore, it doesn't matter who we sign in FA.

Herein lies the problem. On the one hand it seems that 100% of posters agree that the future under PA is gloom and doom. And on the other hand we still want to believe that our Orioles can somehow become again what we remember from the past. In the frustration and desire to see something good happen we share differing opinions and in the expression of those opinions the ire that should be rained down on PA gets redirected here.

[BilboBaggins]

Herein lies the problem. On the one hand it seems that 100% of posters agree that the future under PA is gloom and doom. And on the other hand we still want to believe that our Orioles can somehow become again what we remember from the past. In the frustration and desire to see something good happen we share differing opinions and in the expression of those opinions the ire that should be rained down on PA gets redirected here.

Must spread reputation around...

:agree:

[Sports Guy]

Herein lies the problem. On the one hand it seems that 100% of posters agree that the future under PA is gloom and doom. And on the other hand we still want to believe that our Orioles can somehow become again what we remember from the past. In the frustration and desire to see something good happen we share differing opinions and in the expression of those opinions the ire that should be rained down on PA gets redirected here.

You guys just don't get it.

No one cares that you have a differing opinion of how you want to do things.

What people care about is how clueless you are about what others are saying.

This thread is title defending status quo.

Other than Wildcard, there isn't a person on this board happy with the status quo. People either want improvement or a rebuild. No one wants to ride the fence.

Just because some see that rebuilding is obviously a smarter way to do things, doesn't mean they are for status quo. Once you guys understand that and not allow these simple concepts to allude you, an actual conversation can occur.

Until then, we will just have post after post that amount to nothing and get nothing accomplished except BTerp getting his feelings hurt and neg repping people for no reason at all(which is actually an added bonus but still, it is meaningless).

[MrOrange82]

You guys just don't get it.

No one cares that you have a differing opinion of how you want to do things.

What people care about is how clueless you are about what others are saying.

This thread is title defending status quo.

Other than Wildcard, there isn't a person on this board happy with the status quo. People either want improvement or a rebuild. No one wants to ride the fence.

Just because some see that rebuilding is obviously a smarter way to do things, doesn't mean they are for status quo. Once you guys understand that and not allow these simple concepts to allude you, an actual conversation can occur.

Until then, we will just have post after post that amount to nothing and get nothing accomplished except BTerp getting his feelings hurt and neg repping people for no reason at all(which is actually an added bonus but still, it is meaningless).

Shocking that you'd be the one to electronically pee on an olive branch.

Happy Holidays, good sir.

[EddieMurrayfan]

You guys just don't get it.

No one cares that you have a differing opinion of how you want to do things.

What people care about is how clueless you are about what others are saying.

This thread is title defending status quo.

Other than Wildcard, there isn't a person on this board happy with the status quo. People either want improvement or a rebuild. No one wants to ride the fence.

Just because some see that rebuilding is obviously a smarter way to do things, doesn't mean they are for status quo. Once you guys understand that and not allow these simple concepts to allude you, an actual conversation can occur.

Until then, we will just have post after post that amount to nothing and get nothing accomplished except BTerp getting his feelings hurt and neg repping people for no reason at all(which is actually an added bonus but still, it is meaningless).

No, I think you dont get it. Your still stuck on "you guys just dont get it."

Its all meaningless as long as PA is the owner. The point has been made that no matter how many lil points the status quo guys raise to claim they arent status quo, the bottom line result of the "its not the right time to make any FA moves" is still status quo.

BTW, what really gets accomplished by posting "your view" on what needs to be done, if it isnt gonna happen under PA? Its an internet board. Its just one guys opinion. In reality, your opinion has no more value than another posters opinion. Its simply a place for you to type about the Orioles. My opinion and your opinion ultimately have no more value than the piece of toilet paper you flushed today.

You mention "nothing gets accomplished" and in that you are correct. But its not becuz anybody here "doesn't get it." Its becuz of PA.

[Moose Milligan]

No, I think you dont get it. Your still stuck on "you guys just dont get it."

Its all meaningless as long as PA is the owner. The point has been made that no matter how many lil points the status quo guys raise to claim they arent status quo, the bottom line result of the "its not the right time to make any FA moves" is still status quo.

BTW, what really gets accomplished by posting "your view" on what needs to be done, if it isnt gonna happen under PA? Its an internet board. Its just one guys opinion. In reality, your opinion has no more value than another posters opinion. Its simply a place for you to type about the Orioles. My opinion and your opinion ultimately have no more value than the piece of toilet paper you flushed today.

You mention "nothing gets accomplished" and in that you are correct. But its not becuz anybody here "doesn't get it." Its becuz of PA.

Odd, SG posts "it's meaningless as long as PA is the owner" more than just about anyone. How does he not get it?

[Austin]

Its all meaningless as long as PA is the owner. The point has been made that no matter how many lil points the status quo guys raise to claim they arent status quo, the bottom line result of the "its not the right time to make any FA moves" is still status quo.

So you consider ramping up international signings, trading away our biggest trade chips for prospects, and putting more emphasis on drafting and development to be the status quo? It's not big time free agents or status quo, there are other ways to build a team.

[JTrea81]

So you consider ramping up international signings, trading away our biggest trade chips for prospects, and putting more emphasis on drafting and development to be the status quo? It's not big time free agents or status quo, there are other ways to build a team.

Two out of the three is status quo.

Remember Bedard and Tejada? People want to do the same thing now with Jones.

And I recall MacPhail saying we are going to have to grow our best players.

The only thing that isn't status quo is the increased international effort, but with everything else, we are playing for the future instead of playing for now. And each time we've done that, it's been rinse and repeat.

What we haven't done is blow everything up, trading not just a few key players, but everybody including Wieters. Or we haven't acquired premium talent to supplement the core we've built.

Those two extremes have not been seen, and we need to see one of the two, preferably the latter as the previous would likely prolong the losing for multiple years.

[waroriole]

Two out of the three is status quo.

Remember Bedard and Tejada? People want to do the same thing now with Jones.

And I recall MacPhail saying we are going to have to grow our best players.

The only thing that isn't status quo is the increased international effort, but with everything else, we are playing for the future instead of playing for now. And each time we've done that, it's been rinse and repeat.

What we haven't done is blow everything up, trading not just a few key players, but everybody including Wieters. Or we haven't acquired premium talent to supplement the core we've built.

Those two extremes have not been seen, and we need to see one of the two, preferably the latter as the previous would likely prolong the losing for multiple years.

So if it happens one time, it's status quo?

[Frobby]

Two out of the three is status quo.

Remember Bedard and Tejada? People want to do the same thing now with Jones.

And I recall MacPhail saying we are going to have to grow our best players.

The only thing that isn't status quo is the increased international effort, but with everything else, we are playing for the future instead of playing for now. And each time we've done that, it's been rinse and repeat.

What we haven't done is blow everything up, trading not just a few key players, but everybody including Wieters. Or we haven't acquired premium talent to supplement the core we've built.

Those two extremes have not been seen, and we need to see one of the two, preferably the latter as the previous would likely prolong the losing for multiple years.

I have been mostly staying out of this thread, but I have to jump in here to say that it is simply wrong to think that a good rebuilding job means trading every existing asset. A team can rebuild while keeping some of its assets, it just has to be strategic about who goes and who stays.

[BrunoCherrytown]

"Status Quo" is a German word that means "a female whales's reproductive area"

It's a fact. Ron Burgundy told me so.

[DrungoHazewood]

So you consider ramping up international signings, trading away our biggest trade chips for prospects, and putting more emphasis on drafting and development to be the status quo? It's not big time free agents or status quo, there are other ways to build a team.

I don't get how deeply changing the emphasis of the organization to focus on scouting, analysis and development, pouring significantly more resources into areas that have been neglected for decades, is status quo. Basically, their definition of status quo hinges on your willingness to spend precious resources on extremely expensive and probably futile short-term fixes.

I see the "non-status quo" group as wanting to go halfway on building a good organization so that there's money left over to get the current team to 80 wins. Either that or tap into this fantastic pool of resources that nobody is really sure is even there, and if it is nobody in 20 years has figured out how to get Angelos to use it.

Two out of the three is status quo.

Remember Bedard and Tejada? People want to do the same thing now with Jones.

And I recall MacPhail saying we are going to have to grow our best players.

The only thing that isn't status quo is the increased international effort, but with everything else, we are playing for the future instead of playing for now. And each time we've done that, it's been rinse and repeat.

What we haven't done is blow everything up, trading not just a few key players, but everybody including Wieters. Or we haven't acquired premium talent to supplement the core we've built.

Those two extremes have not been seen, and we need to see one of the two, preferably the latter as the previous would likely prolong the losing for multiple years.

Of all your misconceptions probably the most misconceived is the idea that organization building is a Boolean gate. You're either all the way on or all the way off. Either you tear the team down to the foundation and radically start over, or your buy every free agent available in an offseason and increase payroll an unprecedented 50%. Life isn't like that. There are an infinite number of intermediate solutions, and all real teams end up in that middle ground. The O's have chosen poorly in the last 15 years, and through most of the past 30. But past failures don't necessarily drive you to radical extremes, and they shouldn't. Unless maybe you're a grad student in European history...

[Lucky Jim]

Of all your misconceptions probably the most misconceived is the idea that organization building is a Boolean gate. You're either all the way on or all the way off.

Thank you for that.

[mikegallo]

You guys just don't get it.

No one cares that you have a differing opinion of how you want to do things.

What people care about is how clueless you are about what others are saying.

This thread is title defending status quo.

Other than Wildcard, there isn't a person on this board happy with the status quo. People either want improvement or a rebuild. No one wants to ride the fence.

Just because some see that rebuilding is obviously a smarter way to do things, doesn't mean they are for status quo. Once you guys understand that and not allow these simple concepts to allude you, an actual conversation can occur.

Until then, we will just have post after post that amount to nothing and get nothing accomplished except BTerp getting his feelings hurt and neg repping people for no reason at all(which is actually an added bonus but still, it is meaningless).

Honestly I lean towards a rebuild like you but I can see why other posters disagree...I mean SG can you outline for us when the perpetual rebuild ends...I think that will help other posters see your point clearer because I think you understand that the rebuilding we have endured for the last 15 years is wearing on people.

But of course your gonna say we never went about it in the right fashion and I agree completely but even if you go back two years do you remeber the hope the board had when the young pitchers were in the minor leagues and he made the EM and Miguel trade yet all those guys are here and were calling for yet another rebuild.

I mean if you look at all the value this team lost by moving our young pitchers to the big league and watching everyone fail....I would argue we would be much better off if we had traded those guys while they were in the minor leagues for guys like Shawn Marcum and Zack Grienke and other veteran pitchers.

The Orioles failure rate for young pitchers is almost 100% so what makes you think the next rebuild will produce young pitchers that will actually have good results...At this point it's hard not to agree with the posters who want to go all in...What is gonna make the next rebuild any different from the last one?

(I agree we need to rebuild this team from the ground up and in saying that it doesn't mean we have to trade every asset just the ones who will have more future value in terms of what we get in return)

I really just want your input into these questions.