Roch: Tillman trying to turn around career

[SteveA]

Replying to the person who said the Orioles are what messed up Tillman. Well if there are smarter baseball minds out there they could just come in give the Orioles a decent trade offer for him give their smarter coaches to Tillman and then he goes on to stardom. Or maybe MLB average pitcher instead of being someone who can't get anyone out.

Why is it so hard to believe that some prospects just aren't very good?

It's interesting that one of the first major moves that Duquette makes when he comes in here is to bring in a respected pitching coach and put him in charge of the entire minor league organization's pitching. So in addition to all the anecdotal evidence that the Orioles don't develop pitching prospects well, it would appear that Duquette, coming in from outside the organizatin, felt we were deficient in that area too.

[SteveA]

The cutter compromised it, but I think it was more a victim of the TIME TO THE PLATE fiasco. Look for it to return.

I thought it was more an issue of the pitch was good enough to fool AAA hitters, but experienced major league hitters were able to lay off it and it usually came across the plate low and not in the strike zone.

Sure was beautiful to watch on TV from the center field camera, though!

[CA-ORIOLE]

It's interesting that one of the first major moves that Duquette makes when he comes in here is to bring in a respected pitching coach and put him in charge of the entire minor league organization's pitching. So in addition to all the anecdotal evidence that the Orioles don't develop pitching prospects well, it would appear that Duquette, coming in from outside the organizatin, felt we were deficient in that area too.

Yep, but the the general consensus seems to be that the ML coaches screw them up. It's an interesting dynamic. We've had good guys like Mazzone/Connor who have clearly articulated we have a system problem and then we've had guys like Miller/Kranitz who had more success working with individual pitchers at the ML level. I'm personally on the system side of the argument.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I thought it was more an issue of the pitch was good enough to fool AAA hitters, but experienced major league hitters were able to lay off it and it usually came across the plate low and not in the strike zone.

Yep, those were my thoughts.

[crawjo]

I found it interesting that in the article the three guys who Roch seems to think are assured of starting pitcher spots are Guthrie, Chen and Hunter. That surprised me. If I had to pick a top three, it would be Guthrie, Britton, and Chen, with Arrieta in a strong position to grab a starting rotation spot and the fifth spot being open to competition between Wada, Matusz, Eveland, Hunter, Simon and Tillman. But I guess with this rotation a lot of variations are possible.

I think that Duquette has done a good job of making sure that the young pitchers will have to earn their places in the rotation this year. He's added depth at the starting pitcher position without spending a lot of money. Not ideal but smart.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I found it interesting that in the article the three guys who Roch seems to think are assured of starting pitcher spots are Guthrie, Chen and Hunter. That surprised me. If I had to pick a top three, it would be Guthrie, Britton, and Chen, with Arrieta in a strong position to grab a starting rotation spot and the fifth spot being open to competition between Wada, Matusz, Eveland, Hunter, Simon and Tillman. But I guess with this rotation a lot of variations are possible.

I think that Duquette has done a good job of making sure that the young pitchers will have to earn their places in the rotation this year. He's added depth at the starting pitcher position without spending a lot of money. Not ideal but smart.

I personally Like Hunter quite a bit. He's too much in love with his cutter imo. If he can develop more confidence in/and use his changeup and curve more often I think he can be pretty good. He just has to have more change of speed than FB/cutter.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Gotcha. To clarify:

- Depth would usually be the distance between apex of the arc and conclusion of the pitch. So a depp curve is generally one with a lot of break.

- Bite would be the angle the pitch takes. So a harder curve will have a tighter arc with a more abrupt break, while a softer curve will have a looser arc.

My general observation is by the end of the season the pitch was more consistent in release, which gave it more consistent shape and trajectory. It also gave the pitch a slightly harder bite and more depth.

The command issues, I think, had less to do with the break of the pitch, and more to do with inconsistencies in his arm action and release, which in turn gave him a "loose moving target" as to where he had to aim in order for the pitch to end up in a particular spot.

Thanks, that helps. I would guess that means he's throwing harder "tighter arc" then but that doesn't correlate with pitch fx on the velocity.

[Stotle]

Thanks, that helps. I would guess that means he's throwing harder "tighter arc" then but that doesn't correlate with pitch fx on the velocity.

Spin is generated through arm speed, but that doesn't necessarily manifest in linear shifts in velocity. You're applying force in a different manner than you otherwise would with, say, a fastball.

[Stotle]

Looking back over Tillman's MiL numbers is making me scratch my head. Apart from 2009 and 2010, Tillman's walked waaaay too many batters on a fairly consistent basis. He's obviously still really young, but I feel like lots of these conversations revolve around his loss of control, whereas it doesn't look to me as though he's ever been good at preventing free passes and such.

Not a loss of control -- just absence of the command required to best execute his pitches.

[allstar1579]

Good read catching up on the thread. Missed it earlier.

While reading, I noticed a comment about how Tillman's FB declined...and it started making me think of Matusz. Interesting that they both debuted about the same time, and both lost the same amount of velocity on their FB, CV and CH from 2009-2011. Seems like an awful lot of a coincidence.