Roch on Jones

[Gurgi]

It is obvious. Jones is going to be traded......sometime this year.

[LookinUp]

Waiting to talk extension or trade him is beyond stupid. Why risk and injury or a bad first half when you can already get a nice haul for him now?

Who says they're waiting to talk trade? They clearly have talked trade, but terms cannot be agreed upon quite yet so they're holding off. There is always risk in waiting.

There are several possible reasons that come to mind that could be happening w/r/t Jones not talking extension.

1. The O's don't want to extend Jones because they think he can better help this team through a trade.

2. Jones doesn't want to extend with the O's.

3. There's general disagreement over his value, so they're waiting for the arb hearing to clear that up.

4. The O's want to see if Jones' growth is continuing before committing to him over the long term.

5. Angelos is a money-grubbing curmudgeon who is cutting costs (long term committments) to the max to enhance the value of his franchise in preparation for a sale.

6. DD is lazy and stupid and just doesn't want to do two things at once.

Of all of these, I think #6 is the least likely. If not, we're even more screwed than we all know we already are.

[SoBo]

Who says they're waiting to talk trade? They clearly have talked trade, but terms cannot be agreed upon quite yet so they're holding off. There is always risk in waiting.

There are several possible reasons that come to mind that could be happening w/r/t Jones not talking extension.

1. The O's don't want to extend Jones because they think he can better help this team through a trade.

2. Jones doesn't want to extend with the O's.

3. There's general disagreement over his value, so they're waiting for the arb hearing to clear that up.

4. The O's want to see if Jones' growth is continuing before committing to him over the long term.

5. Angelos is a money-grubbing curmudgeon who is cutting costs (long term committments) to the max to enhance the value of his franchise in preparation for a sale.

6. DD is lazy and stupid and just doesn't want to do two things at once.

Of all of these, I think #6 is the least likely. If not, we're even more screwed than we all know we already are.

My vote is #2. I just don't think Jones wants to stay here. He's a west coast guy and probably would like to find work out there.

A close second is #4. Maybe DD and his cronies want to get a look at their CF with their own eyes before committing to him long term.

I don't see what the big uproar is over Jones at this point.

[ChaosLex]

I asked Roch if teams were still calling on Jones, and he said he didn't know.

[LookinUp]

By the way, I don't want my take on Jones or on the Guthrie trade to be taken the wrong way.

This organization is a train wreck. How you can't get a guy like Jackson to take a 3 year deal over a 1 year deal is beyond belief. That failure, to me, is similar to our unwillingness to go after Beltre the year he went to Boston. We bet the market, rather than the value of a player and in doing so, we eliminated ourselves from any chance of signing him. Yeah, I know he didn't have interest in coming here, but a 4 year deal at $10 per or a little higher might have actually gotten that done. We didn't even try, and that looks to be the case with Jackson too. I genuinely believe we could have had both locked up in a deal that would look like a bargain today (for Beltre) or in 2 years (for Jackson). The fact that we didn't trade Guthrie when he had real value or Hardy at last deadline shows that we put short term mediocrity in front of long term success. Upon just about any review, AM's tenure was a total train wreck and DD's has started off, shall we say, controversial. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say AM probably took the wrong Bedard trade.

I'll be interested to see what we do with Soler, but my expectations are zilch. Chen was a really good signing, but Wada doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Our inability to raise payroll and/or push to trade guys like Hardy and JJ has me thinking that Buck/DD are 100% stuck in between winning and rebuilding.

The only thing keeping me sane is my assumption (hope) that DD and the O's are just giving this group a 3-4 month chance to prove us all wrong. If I'm right, a true firesale could happen in July, assuming this team doesn't perform beyond our expectations.

All of this being said, I think it would be wrong to be talking extension with Jones now. That is not the direction we should be going.

End rant.

[Frobby]

Duquette said before that he is interested in a long-term deal for Jones, but wanted to get his 2012 contract in place first. He's also repeatedly said he considers Jones to be a part of the core of the team, so I believe DD wants to extend him. I think Jones has reservations, however, based on various cryptic tweets and some "nsider" hints (not talking about the guy who Tony booted off).

[NCRaven]

How you can't get a guy like Jackson to take a 3 year deal over a 1 year deal is beyond belief.

Weren't there reports that 3 teams, including the Red Sox had made multi-year offers to Jackson. Is it beyond belief that Boston couldn't get him to agree to a multi-year deal? Or, is it possible that Jackson didn't like the value that baseball in general was placing on him and decided to take a one year deal to prove his value?

I think this issue is greatly exagerated here. The first priority is to reach agreement with Jones on this year's contract, hopefully avoiding arbitration, and leaving the FO with multiple options related to Jones, ie. trade or extension. This is one more example of making a Hangout mountain out of a mole hill.

[33rdst]

Weren't there reports that 3 teams, including the Red Sox had made multi-year offers to Jackson. Is it beyond belief that Boston couldn't get him to agree to a multi-year deal? Or, is it possible that Jackson didn't like the value that baseball in general was placing on him and decided to take a one year deal to prove his value?

I think this issue is greatly exagerated here. The first priority is to reach agreement with Jones on this year's contract, hopefully avoiding arbitration, and leaving the FO with multiple options related to Jones, ie. trade or extension. This is one more example of making a Hangout mountain out of a mole hill.

The only report i've seen that mentions numbers, named the Pirates as offering him 3years at 10 million per year.

[NewMarketSean]

Duquette said before that he is interested in a long-term deal for Jones, but wanted to get his 2012 contract in place first. He's also repeatedly said he considers Jones to be a part of the core of the team, so I believe DD wants to extend him. I think Jones has reservations, however, based on various cryptic tweets and some "nsider" hints (not talking about the guy who Tony booted off).

I would be really shocked if Jones signed an extension here, especially if the team showed no improvement over the last few years he's been here in 2012.

So it comes down to a trade, IMO. I'll be surprised if he is here at the end of the season honestly.

[Sports Guy]

How does that argument work so well for Jones and not so well for Guthrie? You're banking on a decline in Jones numbers the first half? He's performed pretty well the first half of the past two seasons.

Guthrie has nothing to do with this...its 2 totally different situations.

As for Jones, he has 2 full years of service time and just came off of a year that is probably what you can consistently expect from him....plus, teams usually trade more for hitting in the offseason vs the deadline.

It is possible that Jones comes out of the first half, has a big season and multiple teams needs a CFer. I am not denying that possibility. I am just saying that the odds that he is worth more right now are greater than the odds that he will be worth as much or more in July.

[clapdiddy]

Guthrie has nothing to do with this...its 2 totally different situations.

As for Jones, he has 2 full years of service time and just came off of a year that is probably what you can consistently expect from him....plus, teams usually trade more for hitting in the offseason vs the deadline.

It is possible that Jones comes out of the first half, has a big season and multiple teams needs a CFer. I am not denying that possibility. I am just saying that the odds that he is worth more right now are greater than the odds that he will be worth as much or more in July.

I still think Jones gets traded. He would be a good fit for a number of contending teams.

[mcneck]

If the "haul" is actually there, we should have done it yesterday. All we've heard up until this point is a lackluster offer from the Braves. Who knows what else actually exist. I know one thing... this board will explode if we don't get top talent for Jones.

I wouldn't call the offer lackluster. Both Jurrjens and Prado have value and could have been flipped for good young pieces.

[LookinUp]

Weren't there reports that 3 teams, including the Red Sox had made multi-year offers to Jackson. Is it beyond belief that Boston couldn't get him to agree to a multi-year deal? Or, is it possible that Jackson didn't like the value that baseball in general was placing on him and decided to take a one year deal to prove his value?

I think this issue is greatly exagerated here. The first priority is to reach agreement with Jones on this year's contract, hopefully avoiding arbitration, and leaving the FO with multiple options related to Jones, ie. trade or extension. This is one more example of making a Hangout mountain out of a mole hill.

The bolded question is exactly my point and it's exactly what our problem was with Beltre. I think the O's undervalued both. I also think the O's should know they have to overpay a bit in order to get FAs that can help turn this franchise around. Beltre and Jackson, IMO, are both guys that got less than they would in most years. In other words, they're perfect guys to set the market for. Consider AJ Burnett and John Lackey. Both were coveted to the point their price went way beyond most expected production. I think Jackson would have been the opposite. I think he would have outperformed, or at least came close to outperforming a contract.

Guthrie has nothing to do with this...its 2 totally different situations.

As for Jones, he has 2 full years of service time and just came off of a year that is probably what you can consistently expect from him....plus, teams usually trade more for hitting in the offseason vs the deadline.

It is possible that Jones comes out of the first half, has a big season and multiple teams needs a CFer. I am not denying that possibility. I am just saying that the odds that he is worth more right now are greater than the odds that he will be worth as much or more in July.

I think Jones service time plus relatively low cost actually makes it more likely that he will net a better or equal return at the trade deadline, given similar performance. He's a good #5/6 bat that plays a premium position. If an aging and injury prone Beltran could get Wheeler last year, I have to think Jones (at a lower price, 1+ year of service time left and potentially open to an extension) can do better than that.

[Going Underground]

Phil Wood and another person said Jones does not want to extend with the O's. We shall see.

[Boston Dave]

I think Jones is gone- as in, ASAP. I'd put an escalating amount of money on before camp opens, before camp breaks, and def. by the deadline. They have determined his value is greatest without a long term deal. I don't see any other way to interpret this.