Tim Kurkjian: Arrieta and Matusz looking good

[Frobby]

There is no "baiting."

The guy posted his opinion and got blasted for it by some people that didnt agree with him. In doing that they called him STUPID. They said what he posted was the worst thing they have ever read, or similar. There is no reason to do that. For people to do that to the guy means they have an agenda of some sort, or they have issues with other people who disagree with them. Pointing it out is not baiting, it is reality.

First of all, I would not have called atomic's original post "idiotic," because that is not my style. I do think he overreacted to one spring training start on the 5th of March, and that it's foolish to put that much stock in an early ST game. But that could have been said without getting so personal, but you have to have thick skin sometimes.

The reason I said your post was "baiting" was your general statements about how this board operates, what other posters' motives are, and then bringing Guthrie into this in an exaggerated way. You could have defended atomic's position, or criticized the posters for getting somewhat personal with him, without all that.

As to Matusz, your statement that he should have been cut last year, or that he should be cut if he has a bad spring, is just wrong. If he has a bad spring, he'll be sent to AAA and they'll try to get him going on all cylinders there. It would be foolish not to do that.

[TiredofLosing20]

There is no "baiting."

The guy posted his opinion and got blasted for it by some people that didnt agree with him. In doing that they called him STUPID. They said what he posted was the worst thing they have ever read, or similar. There is no reason to do that. For people to do that to the guy means they have an agenda of some sort, or they have issues with other people who disagree with them. Pointing it out is not baiting, it is reality.

They called the statement stupid. Because it was.

The one with the agenda was the poster, not those who responded. He/she has 450 posts of which 448 (hyperbole) have had an agenda.

Whats funny is that ultimately he/she could be right and I think everyone who got on him/her would agree with that. The problem with his/her post is that he/she is giving a guy who has had success on every level of baseball the next month to turn it around before deeming him a complete failure. None of us are probably surprised with this line of thinking from this poster as it is amazingly consistent with pretty much every other post.

You say something ridiculous, expect to be taken to task especially if you have the history that this poster has.

[allstar1579]

Last season was not just "bad." It was horrendous!

You guys act like he just had a few bad outings, so its no big deal.

Nobody has been any worse at any time on record. There is reason for concern.

Oh no, one bad season. If all of his pitches were working like they should and he was getting shelled...ok. But they weren't. His velocity was down, he had trouble coming back from a nagging injury, and when a pitcher is a guy who works off secondaries and his fastball slows down it makes him super hittable.

His velocity has picked back up from earlier in the season and he looks more like the ROY candidate from 2010. Hence there really isn't a reason for concern, but if the sky is still falling in your world...have at it.

[LookinUp]

Message boards get silly, and this is a good example.

Atomic either over states or fails to fully consider his point when he says that Matusz's career is done if this spring goes like last night. Dude, that is an idiotic point. I probably wouldn't have said it that way, but if the O's did that every team in the majors would have laughed us out of MLB more than they have at any time in our past. You don't just drop a guy who dominated college, dominated the MiL and then pitched well over parts of two MLB seasons, just because he had a bad year and in theory follows up with a bad spring. It wouldn't bode well, but career over?

SG isn't exactly a diplomat, but he's usually right. That statement was idiotic. However, directly calling it so isn't exactly the best way to get a poster to refine their point to something most can agree upon. It wasn't helpful.

Here's my take, for what it's worth...

Matusz's career is in limbo right now. He can't be anything like he was last year or he won't even last at the AAA level. On the other hand, dude does have a pedigree and has no apparent injuries. Even if he just returns to what he was in college and the minors he can be a pretty good major league player. Last night's box score didn't look great, but his velocity was better and, as Matusz said, he was relying more on his FB than he normally would because it was his first spring start. To me, he didn't look like the same pitcher I saw last year. It's true...if he doesn't improve his location and mix in all of his pitches effectively, or if he cannot maintain his velocity, he won't make the team. There are still red flags, but there are also reasons to hope he turns it around. I'll patiently watch this play out. If that means he starts the season in AAA, that does not mean his career is over.

[Edit: Tired of losing is right. The poster's history does matter here.]

[Frobby]

Matusz's career is in limbo right now. He can't be anything like he was last year or he won't even last at the AAA level.

Not to distract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to point out that Matusz was actually pretty good at the AAA level last year -- 3.46 ERA down there, and pitching better than that in the final few starts before being recalled in late August. It's a bit of a mystery to me why that didn't carry over when he came back up, but he clearly looked awful in both his major league stints last year.

[LookinUp]

Not to distract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to point out that Matusz was actually pretty good at the AAA level last year -- 3.46 ERA down there, and pitching better than that in the final few starts before being recalled in late August. It's a bit of a mystery to me why that didn't carry over when he came back up, but he clearly looked awful in both his major league stints last year.

Yeah, overall he was better than he was in the majors, but he still sprinkled in a few starts where he just had nothing. Before coming to the majors the first time, dude was a sub-2 ERA guy in the minors. Even in the minors last year he was giving up more fly balls. That doesn't play well with his stuff in the majors, where his GO/AO ration was .42 last year. That's horrible.

He needs to locate well down in the zone with good pitches. He used to do that pretty well in the minors in particular, but has gotten away from it. I'm guessing this is a mix of stuff, the league figuring him out and lost location. Basically, the perfect storm for pitching failure.

[Another edit: FWIW, IMO, I've never seen the Matusz in the pros that everyone raved about coming out of college with the exception of the end of the 2010 season. Even with better stuff and deception, I usually felt like he was a tick off on location and I really haven't seen his fastball be where I think it needs to be (consistently 91-92). It's what limited him from being a #4/5 starter rather than a #2 starter.]

[Sports Guy]

Its a shame the Sun is now requesting people to pay...it shows on this site.

EddieMurrayFan would have cut Roy Halladay too! LOL

[24fps]

Not to distract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to point out that Matusz was actually pretty good at the AAA level last year -- 3.46 ERA down there, and pitching better than that in the final few starts before being recalled in late August. It's a bit of a mystery to me why that didn't carry over when he came back up, but he clearly looked awful in both his major league stints last year.

I'm going to be really upset if he was tipping his pitches and the only clueless ML team on the planet was the Orioles.

[allstar1579]

I'm going to be really upset if he was tipping his pitches and the only clueless ML team on the planet was the Orioles.

It was more that there was only like a 5mph difference from his change to his FB, which eliminated the effectiveness of his best pitch. When all 3 of his best pitches are coming in between 82-87mph it's like batting practice in the pros.

[atomic]

How does where a player is drafted affect what you think of the guy once he is in the major leagues? It doesn't matter. Plenty of guys in later rounds have become stars. Plenty of players drafted at the top of the first round have been busts.

I never said he was done or should be cut. I said if he doesn't get it turned around in spring training it will probably be the last we see of him as a major league ball player. He is worse than Jo Jo Reyes. Let that sink in for a while.

Calling me the idiot. Most of you don't even go to games but spend you entire life on a message board. And I know what winning teams look like. My first game Brooks was at third and Belanger at Short. Blair in center. And McNally on the mound. It is obvious most you know little about baseball. You undervalue fielding ability. You undervalue making contact and moving the runner along. You don't know the differenance between a quality starter and a guy who isn't major league material.

Look at all you guys supporting Mark Reynolds. He can't field. Has limited range. Terrible clutch hitter. Why do you like him? Because he hits solo home runs when the game is out of reach?

[ShaneDawg85]

Its a shame the Sun is now requesting people to pay...it shows on this site.

EddieMurrayFan would have cut Roy Halladay too! LOL

If Oldfan were here he'd have chastised you for comparing Roy Halladay and Brian Matusz.

[Can_of_corn]

How does where a player is drafted affect what you think of the guy once he is in the major leagues? It doesn't matter. Plenty of guys in later rounds have become stars. Plenty of players drafted at the top of the first round have been busts.

I never said he was done or should be cut. I said if he doesn't get it turned around in spring training it will probably be the last we see of him as a major league ball player. He is worse than Jo Jo Reyes. Let that sink in for a while.

Calling me the idiot. Most of you don't even go to games but spend you entire life on a message board. And I know what winning teams look like. My first game Brooks was at third and Belanger at Short. Blair in center. And McNally on the mound. It is obvious most you know little about baseball. You undervalue fielding ability. You undervalue making contact and moving the runner along. You don't know the differenance between a quality starter and a guy who isn't major league material.

Look at all you guys supporting Mark Reynolds. He can't field. Has limited range. Terrible clutch hitter. Why do you like him? Because he hits solo home runs when the game is out of reach?

I am reasonably sure that statement is false. Would you like to provide data to support your position?

[atomic]

My favorite thing you guys said is Reynolds is more valuable to team playing third than first. Which makes no sense at all. Oh his Offensive WAR would be higher. That doesn't make him more valuable to the team. If that were the case detroit could play prince at Shortstop as he would be more valuable to the team there. Ridiculous statements people on here make.

[Sports Guy]

My favorite thing you guys said is Reynolds is more valuable to team playing third than first. Which makes no sense at all. Oh his Offensive WAR would be higher. That doesn't make him more valuable to the team. If that were the case detroit could play prince at Shortstop as he would be more valuable to the team there. Ridiculous statements people on here make.

Its not ridiculous just because you can't comprehend the reasoning behind it. What is ridiculous is your lack of knowledge but how you come on here and act asd if you have a clue. You don't.

Just sit back in your rocking chair and talk about the good ol days.

[DrungoHazewood]

Not to distract from the rest of your post, but I wanted to point out that Matusz was actually pretty good at the AAA level last year -- 3.46 ERA down there, and pitching better than that in the final few starts before being recalled in late August. It's a bit of a mystery to me why that didn't carry over when he came back up, but he clearly looked awful in both his major league stints last year.

I wouldn't really say a 3.46 ERA in Norfolk is "pretty good". It's more like average, or a tick better than average, for a AAA pitcher. The IL ERA was 4.03, and Norfolk is one of the (if not the most) extreme pitcher's parks in all of AAA. In previous year's I've compared long lists of pitchers who've pitched in both Norfolk and Baltimore and figured that you need to add nearly 2.00 runs to a Norfolk ERA to get the equivalent in Baltimore. Not sure if that's still the case with the offensive downturn in MLB.

In any case, I'd expect Matusz to do much better than a mid-3.00s ERA in Norfolk if he's back to the pitcher he was in 2010.