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Matusz article and chart


Frobby

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Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but here it goes:

Looks like Buck is still obsessed with "time to the plate". This is from one of Roch's post today:

Have stolen bases against really been such a big deal in the past against us?

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2012/03/showalter-speaks-after-2-1-victory.html

To the contrary, the Orioles allowed the fewest stolen bases in the league in 2011.

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Speaking for myself, I really don't care to discuss what caused Matusz's problems last spring anymore. We know he's in boffo shape now, whatever the case was last year. We know he's determined not to repeat his mistakes. I'm ready to turn the page. To me, the main point made in Melewski's artice is that, whatever shape he is in, and even if his velocity is at a respectable level, he needs to be able to command all four of his pitches the way he did in 2010 if he is going to be successful. That's what I need to see.

I agree last year is over and done with so let's look at the here and now. I am just hoping that mentally he is able to move on and not let last year's failure dictate this year's adjustments.

In other words, he needs to get back to being the pitcher whose consistent mechanics helped him command the ball enough to win ballgames. The first spring game showed me that he is able to capture that old form. He flashed that old form, but was not able to sustain it throughout the outing for whatever reason.

Given that it is early in the spring, I think we are better served waiting till the season is upon us to decide if consistent mechanical Matsuz is back. If that is the case then he should be in the OD rotation, if not, then he is better served spending some time in AAA.

My mechanical analysis of the first game was an attempt to gauge his current mechanics and how they relate to his past successes and failures. Whatever anyone thought of that analysis I gave to people is fine with me, but even as amatuer as someone like me is in mechanical analysis I wish others would offer there own analysis. Or they can comment on mine, either way mechanical analysis of such an integral part of our teams future is vital toward fans having a better understanding of the game, while also sparking intelligent invigorating discussion.

After all that is the reason why we are here, right? I hope in the future this type of discussion is more commonplace around here despite the underwhelming precedent my attempt has bestowed upon future analytical posts/posters. Those types of posts are what sparked my interest in the Hangout and is what sets this board apart from all others.

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My mechanical analysis of the first game was an attempt to gauge his current mechanics and how they relate to his past successes and failures. Whatever anyone thought of that analysis I gave to people is fine with me, but even as amatuer as someone like me is in mechanical analysis I wish others would offer there own analysis. Or they can comment on mine, either way mechanical analysis of such an integral part of our teams future is vital toward fans having a better understanding of the game, while also sparking intelligent invigorating discussion.

After all that is the reason why we are here, right? I hope in the future this type of discussion is more commonplace around here despite the underwhelming precedent my attempt has bestowed upon future analytical posts/posters. Those types of posts are what sparked my interest in the Hangout and is what sets this board apart from all others.

Maybe, like me, most posters are not that attentive to mechanical issues unless they are really glaring. For me, when I'm watching a pitcher, I am more watching where the ball goes and what it does than exactly what the pitcher is doing to make that happen. I'd like to think that I am a very sophisticated baseball fan, but in that respect, I am not that sophisticated.

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Maybe, like me, most posters are not that attentive to mechanical issues unless they are really glaring. For me, when I'm watching a pitcher, I am more watching where the ball goes and what it does than exactly what the pitcher is doing to make that happen. I'd like to think that I am a very sophisticated baseball fan, but in that respect, I am not that sophisticated.

I'm not trained to analyze pitching mechanics, and therefore generally don't comment on them. I can notice a few easy things, but even the relationship between those minor issues and the results are relatively unknown. A lot of this seems like pretty typical post hoc ergo propter hoc analysis.

In the end, if I don't know enough to have an informed opinion of whether I'm right or wrong, what am I offering? Not "intelligent" or "invigorating" discussion, clearly.

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Maybe, like me, most posters are not that attentive to mechanical issues unless they are really glaring. For me, when I'm watching a pitcher, I am more watching where the ball goes and what it does than exactly what the pitcher is doing to make that happen. I'd like to think that I am a very sophisticated baseball fan, but in that respect, I am not that sophisticated.

Sure I think that is likely, maybe my wording was off as I meant good analysis in general, not just pitching mechanics. That just happened to be the topic in this thread since it is a Matsuz thread and it's very likely that when speaking of lost velocity/command that mechanics is an issue.

I just wanted to be clear to the many many followers of Hangout who don't post for whatever reason (and everyone else to) that discussing any kind of analysis is what made this board great (to me anyway) and that should be a focal point of the board. Even if you agree with that analysis or not, it is crucial for a quality board to have a healthy diverse group of people providing analysis and for others to comment on it. Otherwise the board will suffer and we will lose a great source of knowledge and fun for many people.

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I'm not trained to analyze pitching mechanics, and therefore generally don't comment on them. I can notice a few easy things, but even the relationship between those minor issues and the results are relatively unknown. A lot of this seems like pretty typical post hoc ergo propter hoc analysis.

In the end, if I don't know enough to have an informed opinion of whether I'm right or wrong, what am I offering? Not "intelligent" or "invigorating" discussion, clearly.

Just because you don't agree with the analysis doesn't mean it's a post hoc fallacy. Patronizing is a great way to stimulate great baseball discussion, clearly. Really makes posters feel as though there thoughts are diminished and some board mainstays will continue to keep the Hangout a closed community, which is not a good way to encourage new analytical posters who keep the hangout fresh and diverse.

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Just because you don't agree with the analysis doesn't mean it's a post hoc fallacy. Patronizing is a great way to stimulate great baseball discussion, clearly. Really makes posters feel as though there thoughts are diminished and some board mainstays will continue to keep the Hangout a closed community, which is not a good way to encourage new analytical posters who keep the hangout fresh and diverse.

I wasn't talking about your post. I was talking in general - whether it be SG talking about Nick's hands (not that he has no right) or anyone else talking about, well, any other mechanical issue they can't really isolate - and I stand by my point. Our desire to find causal relationships isn't enough to establish a causal relationship. People can talk about whatever they like, but that doesn't mean those who (like me) don't buy into the analysis should feel obligated to contribute.

Where I see a causal relationship being discussed and I can, with some certainty, establish the validity or fallacy behind it (as in the OBP/Terry Crowley debates over the years), I'm happy to chip in.

I'm not sure what a "new analytical poster" is. I'm sure phrenologists thought they were "analytical," too.

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I wasn't talking about your post. I was talking in general - whether it be SG talking about Nick's hands (not that he has no right) or anyone else talking about, well, any other mechanical issue they can't really isolate - and I stand by my point. Our desire to find causal relationships isn't enough to establish a causal relationship. People can talk about whatever they like, but that doesn't mean those who (like me) don't buy into the analysis should feel obligated to contribute.

Where I see a causal relationship being discussed and I can, with some certainty, establish the validity or fallacy behind it (as in the OBP/Terry Crowley debates over the years), I'm happy to chip in.

I'm not sure what a "new analytical poster" is. I'm sure phrenologists thought they were "analytical," too.

I can't comment on other posters thought process, but what causal relationship are you refering to?....

In my mechanical analysis I saw something in Matsuz delivery that was causing him to lose velocity/control/timing and commented on why I presumed his mechanics were causing that. I don't pretend to be an expert (few truly are) but I have a long history of baseball study in my life, and used that to try to give some insight to his struggle. I am not of the school of thought that you must be an expert to provide insight on basic pitching mechanics. If that were the case this board would rarely ever get to discuss our insights on the subject, which would be a real shame.

Also I would define a "new analytical poster" to anyone who hasn't posted on this site (For whatever reason) that has any type of analysis to contribute.

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I agree last year is over and done with so let's look at the here and now. I am just hoping that mentally he is able to move on and not let last year's failure dictate this year's adjustments.

In other words, he needs to get back to being the pitcher whose consistent mechanics helped him command the ball enough to win ballgames. The first spring game showed me that he is able to capture that old form. He flashed that old form, but was not able to sustain it throughout the outing for whatever reason.

Given that it is early in the spring, I think we are better served waiting till the season is upon us to decide if consistent mechanical Matsuz is back. If that is the case then he should be in the OD rotation, if not, then he is better served spending some time in AAA.

My mechanical analysis of the first game was an attempt to gauge his current mechanics and how they relate to his past successes and failures. Whatever anyone thought of that analysis I gave to people is fine with me, but even as amatuer as someone like me is in mechanical analysis I wish others would offer there own analysis. Or they can comment on mine, either way mechanical analysis of such an integral part of our teams future is vital toward fans having a better understanding of the game, while also sparking intelligent invigorating discussion.

After all that is the reason why we are here, right? I hope in the future this type of discussion is more commonplace around here despite the underwhelming precedent my attempt has bestowed upon future analytical posts/posters. Those types of posts are what sparked my interest in the Hangout and is what sets this board apart from all others.

I have frequently posted anlaysis about pitching/pitching mechanics. So have many others. Like Frobby said, I typically look at the results instead of the why's. That's because I don't know the whys, but I still dabble. That said, I don't make statements of fact that I have no clue about. At some point Stotle/Allstar (or someone else) may come along and rip me and then I learn something. Sometimes it's just semantics. Why should we give credit to your analysis (which I didn't myself dismiss and gave you a courteous reply) when you have no professional training and Stotle has already mitigated it?

Especially when your past anlaysis/reputation about defense and other posts have been filled with over the top rhetoric and exaggerations.

On top of that, I guess you've taken this further as you being some sort of savior of the enlghtened about all subjects that will help the blind and closed minded OH robots open their minds to young visionaries like yourself. You as the obvious leader of the enligthened I guess.

There are many, many, great posters on here who provide great analysis and do the heavy lifting and no I'm not talking about Drungo, Sports Guy or Frobby (nothing against those three).

Why don't you put aside your ego and post intelligently on here and earn your respect instead of looking for shortcuts.

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I have frequently posted anlaysis about pitching/pitching mechanics. So have many others. Like Frobby said, I typically look at the results instead of the why's. That's because I don't know the whys, but I still dabble. That said, I don't make statements of fact that I have no clue about. At some point Stotle/Allstar (or someone else) may come along and rip me and then I learn something. Sometimes it's just semantics. Why should we give credit to your analysis (which I didn't myself dismiss and gave you a courteous reply) when you have no professional training and Stotle has already mitigated it?

Especially when your past anlaysis/reputation about defense and other posts have been filled with over the top rhetoric and exaggerations.

On top of that, I guess you've taken this further as you being some sort of savior of the enlghtened about all subjects that will help the blind and closed minded OH robots open their minds to young visionaries like yourself. You as the obvious leader of the enligthened I guess.

Their are many, many, great posters on here who provide great analysis and do the heavy lifting and no I'm not talking about Drungo, Sports Guy or Frobby (nothing against those three).

Why don't you put aside your ego and post intelligently on here and earn your respect instead of looking for shortcuts.

I really don't understand your reaction to this post at all or some others for that matter.

I was complementing this board on some of its great analysis in the past and trying to promote more of it...Not being egotistical or trying to direct the board towards a certain posting style. Seriously I really don't understand why it is being thought of as negative in any way, in fact I was going out of my way to be nice and thoughtful towards the board and it's posters.

I hardly take Stotles comment as mitigating when all he really said is he didn't see it in those to innings, but others can take it how they will. I think many people would agree that my analysis was a decent attempt to diagnose some of Matsuz command problems and I don't need anyone to reassure me of the legitimacy of my thoughts on that subject.

I really have tried to fit in with the culture here while adding my insights to discussion and I think if this weren't a message board and instead face to face discussion people would hear my words, tone, and sincerity, and come to very different conclusion on the motivations of my words.

Honestly being such a long follower of the board (since 03-04 at least) and admiring many of it's posters thoughts/analysis on the Orioles, it is very disheartening to me to have gained such a misunderstood/unintentional reputation of being a snob or 'looking for shortcuts for respect'. Years ago I posted under a different name and never had such reputation or issues. It was a long time ago and I don't even remember what my name tag was at that point, but still if such stalwarts of the Hangout are so inclined to dislike my posts to the point it's at I will cease engaging and go back to just viewing. I have spent valuable time putting my thoughts on here and having the Hangout as my Orioles outlet (My friends and just about everyone else stopped following this losing team LONG AGO). The Hangout has filled the Orioles void for me and I would be lying if I said I didn't take this stuff personal to a certain point.

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I really don't understand your reaction to this post at all or some others for that matter.

I was complementing this board on some of its great analysis in the past and trying to promote more of it...Not being egotistical or trying to direct the board towards a certain posting style. Seriously I really don't understand why it is being thought of as negative in any way, in fact I was going out of my way to be nice and thoughtful towards the board and it's posters.

I hardly take Stotles comment as mitigating when all he really said is he didn't see it in those to innings, but others can take it how they will. I think many people would agree that my analysis was a decent attempt to diagnose some of Matsuz command problems and I don't need anyone to reassure me of the legitimacy of my thoughts on that subject.

I really have tried to fit in with the culture here while adding my insights to discussion and I think if this weren't a message board and instead face to face discussion people would hear my words, tone, and sincerity, and come to very different conclusion on the motivations of my words.

Honestly being such a long follower of the board (since 03-04 at least) and admiring many of it's posters thoughts/analysis on the Orioles, it is very disheartening to me to have gained such a misunderstood/unintentional reputation of being a snob or 'looking for shortcuts for respect'. Years ago I posted under a different name and never had such reputation or issues. It was a long time ago and I don't even remember what my name tag was at that point, but still if such stalwarts of the Hangout are so inclined to dislike my posts to the point it's at I will cease engaging and go back to just viewing. I have spent valuable time putting my thoughts on here and having the Hangout as my Orioles outlet (My friends and just about everyone else stopped following this losing team LONG AGO). The Hangout has filled the Orioles void for me and I would be lying if I said I didn't take this stuff personal to a certain point.

I don't want you to stop posting. I often agree with a lot you have to say and find many of your points interesting. Just post your analysis and dispense with added crap, exaggerations and hyperbole. Don't get so defensive and personal if someone disagrees with you or you don't get a response or a response you like. Happens to me all the time. Reflect on the word "humility" and consider you're not nearly as bright as you think you are. We're not here to listen to a soap opera.

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I have frequently posted anlaysis about pitching/pitching mechanics. So have many others. Like Frobby said, I typically look at the results instead of the why's. That's because I don't know the whys, but I still dabble. That said, I don't make statements of fact that I have no clue about. At some point Stotle/Allstar (or someone else) may come along and rip me and then I learn something. Sometimes it's just semantics. Why should we give credit to your analysis (which I didn't myself dismiss and gave you a courteous reply) when you have no professional training and Stotle has already mitigated it?

Especially when your past anlaysis/reputation about defense and other posts have been filled with over the top rhetoric and exaggerations.

On top of that, I guess you've taken this further as you being some sort of savior of the enlghtened about all subjects that will help the blind and closed minded OH robots open their minds to young visionaries like yourself. You as the obvious leader of the enligthened I guess.

Their are many, many, great posters on here who provide great analysis and do the heavy lifting and no I'm not talking about Drungo, Sports Guy or Frobby (nothing against those three).

Why don't you put aside your ego and post intelligently on here and earn your respect instead of looking for shortcuts.

As far as my pitching analysis I never made any attempt to suggest it to be a matter of fact. It was just what I thought-thats it. I am not saying you should give me credit or not, although I think any analysis that anyone puts time and effort to type up for the board to enjoy should be applauded. I never gave anything but the truth in the sense of me being an expert and welcome others baseball thoughts on the subject. When people like SG laugh when I say it's legit analysis, it makes me mad because who is he to belittle someones opinion. He can agree or disagree with what was said but to belittle it is wrong. I also think if people gave it an unbiased look then they would be reacting very differently. If my tag name was different or whatever but that's neither here nor there. I have been following this board almost half my life and have played and watched baseball my hole life. I have sat down and had 2 hour long talks with Ray Miller about baseball and really enjoyed them.

I know I am a smart guy. I know I have a vast amount of knowledge about baseball (that is surpassed by many, of course), which I had every intention of growing and developing within this community. I cannot pinpoint when or how my reputation on here got so bad that every thought I have is routinely doubted (even when supported greatly imo), but whatever the causes of those issues, I have tried to rectify them recently and to my knowledge it has been a futile attempt.

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To the contrary, the Orioles allowed the fewest stolen bases in the league in 2011.

Common sense would dictate BM + Old Mechanics = Very effective, above average SB against. Wieters = Below average SB against. The two together should balance out to around league average anyway, so why wreck the pitcher being paranoid about steals. I'd rather have a guy give up a steal to every baserunner, but only allow 5 hits a game versus a guy that gives up 10 hits a game worrying about allowing steals.

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I kinda have to agree with CA, Mike. Your original analysis was ok, even if I didn't agree with every word. Didn't have to. It's when you started with dramatic stuff at the end.

Look, I just started posting here. The Sun, where I had been posting last year started charging, as I'm sure you all know. I got in my share of disagreements with people there over the course of the season, but analysis is different from lobbying for your point of view.

Go ahead with the analysis. Just let people make up their own minds whether or not they agree with it.

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I don't want you to stop posting. I often agree with a lot you have to say and find many of your points interesting. Just post your analysis and dispense with added crap, exaggerations and hyperbole. Don't get so defensive and personal if someone disagrees with you or you don't get a response or a response you like. Happens to me all the time. Reflect on the word "humility" and consider you're not nearly as bright as you think you are. We're not here to listen to a soap opera.

I agree but in this instance I used no hyperbole, exaggerations or gave any indication that I am 'nearly as bright as I think I am', yet was jumped on anyway....I even went out of my way to ignore various shots, yet here we are another soap opera.......I can't control how others preconcieved notions dictate there rudness or attacks on me....And I can only look the other way to a point. Idk in spite of as much as I have done 'wrong'' on here, I just don't think I am getting a fair shake. But whatever no one is gonna see any validity with my POV. Whatever.

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