Brian Roberts: I am concerned

[El Gordo]

Likely a contributing factor. He repeatedly applied light taps to his helmet after an out. This was discussed before and I agree with the Lawyers on this one as far as culpability. Since the Oioles knew he did this and made no effort to stop it, the team probably shares some culpability.

When I played Varsity ball in high school, I hit myself on the helmet on purpose, to see how well the helmet absorbed impact. The range of motion in that situation is pretty limited and you can't generate nearly the force of a 90 mph FB colliding with it. If Brian hit a walkoff HR and his team mates hit him on the head in celebration, the impact could well be harder. I also experinced being struck in the forehead when I was about 8, when I accidently got too close to some high school age kid taking practice swings in the on deck circle. It was the back swing, but still a lot harder than I could hit myself with a bat. I wasn't wearing a helmet then, and I didn't experience concussion symptoms. I would think a case could be made that the helmet tap triggered symptoms from a pre exhisting condition that wes a result of the cummulative impacts of sliding head first into bases, diving for balls, and getting taken out of DP's. Certainly the second concussion was a result of that sort of impact. I think people are making too much out of the helmet tap business.

[El Gordo]

Let me get this straight...

Its totally cool with you to have a player on a roster designed for squeezing good years out of failed players all offseason with little to no hope of said player actually playing? Even if this player did make it on the field he'd likely have an insane decline due to not being in baseball shape? Let's also add in that this player makes an eighth of the entire payroll. All of this doesn't frustrate you? Of course no matter the outcome the Orioles would still be the joke of an organization it has proved itself to be but still...how can you think its fine and cool and dandy? Its not necessarily the worst thing that could have happened but man, its annoying. Sit him down in a room and tell him its over. For gods sakes he is having to reacclimate himself to people in the stands...put a fork in it and call it a career. Best of luck Roberts, but there's the door...

The unusual, even for you, level of inanity in this post, makes it impossible for me to discern your point. Are you suggesting that the Orioles should have just eaten his contract in the fall, since there was no way in your opinion that he could ever be of any value to them going forward? There was no way for the O's to force him to retire. They signed his contract. That's on them, They certainly could have anticipoated a decline, but they couldn't be expected to know this would happen.

[CA-ORIOLE]

When I played Varsity ball in high school, I hit myself on the helmet on purpose, to see how well the helmet absorbed impact. The range of motion in that situation is pretty limited and you can't generate nearly the force of a 90 mph FB colliding with it. If Brian hit a walkoff HR and his team mates hit him on the head in celebration, the impact could well be harder. I also experinced being struck in the forehead when I was about 8, when I accidently got too close to some high school age kid taking practice swings in the on deck circle. It was the back swing, but still a lot harder than I could hit myself with a bat. I wasn't wearing a helmet then, and I didn't experience concussion symptoms. I would think a case could be made that the helmet tap triggered symptoms from a pre exhisting condition that wes a result of the cummulative impacts of sliding head first into bases, diving for balls, and getting taken out of DP's. Certainly the second concussion was a result of that sort of impact. I think people are making too much out of the helmet tap business.

Yeah I agree, I think the helmet tap was likely only a trigger and perhaps a very limited contributing factor. The head first slides etc, likely being the more prominent issues. Weams seams to think this particular incident was severe. This is a hypothetical discussion that came up in past Roberts thread about whether the Orioles could potentially void the contract if he negligently hit himself on the head with the bat.

[weams]

When I played Varsity ball in high school, I hit myself on the helmet on purpose, to see how well the helmet absorbed impact. The range of motion in that situation is pretty limited and you can't generate nearly the force of a 90 mph FB colliding with it. If Brian hit a walkoff HR and his team mates hit him on the head in celebration, the impact could well be harder. I also experinced being struck in the forehead when I was about 8, when I accidently got too close to some high school age kid taking practice swings in the on deck circle. It was the back swing, but still a lot harder than I could hit myself with a bat. I wasn't wearing a helmet then, and I didn't experience concussion symptoms. I would think a case could be made that the helmet tap triggered symptoms from a pre exhisting condition that wes a result of the cummulative impacts of sliding head first into bases, diving for balls, and getting taken out of DP's. Certainly the second concussion was a result of that sort of impact. I think people are making too much out of the helmet tap business.

And yet, for Brian, it sent him spiraling into despair. Who knew?

[weams]

Yeah I agree, I think the helmet tap was likely only a trigger and perhaps a very limited contributing factor. The head first slides etc, likely being the more prominent issues. Weams seams to think this particular incident was severe. This is a hypothetical discussion that came up in past Roberts thread about whether the Orioles could potentially void the contract if he negligently hit himself on the head with the bat.

And I always said that was a non issue. But still. I am sad that he has not been able to play for a few years because of a bad back and brain injury - immediately after signing his 40 million dollar guaranteed contract.

[TakebackOPACY]

After the Albert Belle situation and the impact of 9/11 on the insurance business as a whole, baseball contract insurance companies went to 3-year renewable policies. There's a good chance that the O's will get payments from an insurance company for 2012 once Roberts goes on the 60-day DL. But there's a very good chance that anything related to his concussions, back, or hip (the problems he had in 2010) would have been un-insurable for 2013.

[weams]

After the Albert Belle situation and the impact of 9/11 on the insurance business as a whole, baseball contract insurance companies went to 3-year renewable policies. There's a good chance that the O's will get payments from an insurance company for 2012 once Roberts goes on the 60-day DL. But there's a very good chance that anything related to his concussions, back, or hip (the problems he had in 2010) would have been un-insurable for 2013.

Thanks for the clarification. Are the Orioles self insured?

[Mr Snuffleupagus]

People really get in a tizzy about the money. Like it's money PA was going to use toward something more productive. The worst thing that is going to happen this season as a result of Brian Roberts hanging around is that we're likely going to drop Josh Bell and we had to drop Rick VandenHurk and a few others who's names you've probably forgotten. Do I think he'll play again? No. Do I think his contract is going to have any effect on our success as an organization in the future? Extremely doubtful.

1/2 the teams in the league have a Brian Roberts esque situation. It's actually no worse then paying for 2015-2017 Arod, 2020-2022 Pujols, 2007-2013 Barry Zito, 2015-2017 Jason Werth, etc, etc. Actually, those situation will likely be worse, because you're somewhat obligated to actually play the player, even though they might be playing well below replacement level. At least with Brian we're able to move on and find other means to fill his position.

What's worse for the Orioles - Brian Roberts as-is (not capable of playing), or Brian Roberts making a comeback only to spend the next two season batting around the Mendoza line with lackluster defense?

[oriole]

The unusual, even for you, level of inanity in this post, makes it impossible for me to discern your point. Are you suggesting that the Orioles should have just eaten his contract in the fall, since there was no way in your opinion that he could ever be of any value to them going forward? There was no way for the O's to force him to retire. They signed his contract. That's on them, They certainly could have anticipoated a decline, but they couldn't be expected to know this would happen.

Look...I'm not saying they should have done anything, I don't have the answers. However, I think being displeased with the situation is totally acceptable. Some people have this attitude of "oh well, go get em Brian" that I think is foolish. Roberts is not the player he was largely (and I mean very largely) due to this whole concussion ordeal. Personally I think if he ever does make it back he will be sub replacement level with a popular name. To overlook the situation as not really that bad is insanity.

What should the O's do? Who knows? Either way it sucks.

[TakebackOPACY]

Thanks for the clarification. Are the Orioles self insured?

Here's a blurb that covers a lot despite being really short.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2008/05/Issue-162/Leagues-Governing-Bodies/MLB-Teams-Insure-Long-Term-Deals-To-Protect-From-Player-Injury.aspx

That blurb mentions that the NBA and NHL have league-wide insurance but MLB teams seek insurance on their own.

If you're interested, google 'baseball contract insurance'. You'll find a few articles that delve into the impact that the Belle policy had... and the impact that the change of policy on length of policies had on the length of free agent contracts. The avg. length of free agent contract dropped dramatically immediately after companies stopped insuring long-term contracts. It'd be really interesting to see some data compiled on that trend now that we're ten years out. I would think that the steroid testing era has had an impact so it'd be impossible to isolate factors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/01/sports/baseball-insurance-costs-are-dictating-3-year-offers.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

http://www.sportsbusinesssims.com/press_releases3.htm

[El Gordo]

And yet, for Brian, it sent him spiraling into despair. Who knew?

What you don't seem to be grasping is that anything, like bumping his head in the car as he got in, or teamates pummeling him, could have triggered it, just as well. The helmet tap was not that unusual or different from any of these type impacts.

[SerenityNow]

Yeah I agree, I think the helmet tap was likely only a trigger and perhaps a very limited contributing factor. The head first slides etc, likely being the more prominent issues. Weams seams to think this particular incident was severe. This is a hypothetical discussion that came up in past Roberts thread about whether the Orioles could potentially void the contract if he negligently hit himself on the head with the bat.

Maybe I'm losing it here but I feel like I remember seeing Brian firmly smack himself in the head with his bat literally dozens of times. Chalking that up to a "light helmet tap" seems disingenuous to me.

[El Gordo]

Maybe I'm losing it here but I feel like I remember seeing Brian firmly smack himself in the head with his bat literally dozens of times. Chalking that up to a "light helmet tap" seems disingenuous to me.

The helmet is designed to withstand much greater impacts than that. If the concussion is a result of the bat impact, then mayvbe he should sue the helmet makers.

[SerenityNow]

The helmet is designed to withstand much greater impacts than that. If the concussion is a result of the bat impact, then mayvbe he should sue the helmet makers.

Quote from Brian regarding the incident.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/04/brian-roberts-unsure-what-caused-concussion-like-symptoms/

[El Gordo]

Quote from Brian regarding the incident.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/10/04/brian-roberts-unsure-what-caused-concussion-like-symptoms/

So? He says he" wacked" himself. That could mean any number of things, from a mob hit, to a dog getting a newspaper on his butt while being house trained. The point I'm making is the average ML ballplayer generates a bat speed of about 76 mph. The helmet is designed to absorb the impact of a 90 mph ML FB. You simply cannot generate anything near that kind of force while holding the bat in front of you with both hands. I do urge you to try this at home. Often.