Shaka Smart turns downs Illinois

[hoosiers]

When we think in terms of basketball we see all of these teams as small, "mid-major" programs. But VCU has 24,000 undergrads and a 7,500-seat arena. George Mason is 20,000 and 10,000, respectively. These are major public universities that have just never competed at that level, and there is no reason why they can't, other than tradition, if they want to spend the money.

I don't really get what you are saying. The major public universites have stadiums seating 15,000 to approx 20,000. The major public universities have significantly greater resources from very large living alumni pools to dedicated conference TV channels with national scope to high $ deals with ESPN. Contrary to above, there are plenty of very good reasons, other than tradition, why these mid-majors will not be able to compete long term with the power conferences.

Sure, there are mid-majors every year that make noise in the tournament, but it is rarely the same ones on a sustained basis over a period of time.

[Goop]

Couple things:

I hope Smart is making a good decision. Some guys want to build their own, some want to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Not going to classify him in any way, if he is happy at VCU, good for him. I hope his recent success there is sustainable - I do not get the feeling Brad Stevens is turning away four and five star guys. Maybe Smart can attract quality talent on a sustainable basis.

IMO, dominating the CAA is not a very lofty goal. Ending the year with a strength of schedule in the 130s is not a great way to build a program to any sort of elite status.

If Smart can attract the 4 and 5 star guys to VCU and make that sustainable, then good for him - he's probably making the right decision. If not, he is turning down a top 15-22 program where he would likely - because IMO he could attract better talent and - have better teams entering the NCAAs.

There has been talk lately of Butler, VCU, and Mason moving to the A-10 when Temple leaves. Not sure if that played into his decision at all.

[Sports Guy]

Couple things:

I hope Smart is making a good decision. Some guys want to build their own, some want to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Not going to classify him in any way, if he is happy at VCU, good for him. I hope his recent success there is sustainable - I do not get the feeling Brad Stevens is turning away four and five star guys. Maybe Smart can attract quality talent on a sustainable basis.

IMO, dominating the CAA is not a very lofty goal. Ending the year with a strength of schedule in the 130s is not a great way to build a program to any sort of elite status.

If Smart can attract the 4 and 5 star guys to VCU and make that sustainable, then good for him - he's probably making the right decision. If not, he is turning down a top 15-22 program where he would likely - because IMO he could attract better talent and - have better teams entering the NCAAs.

I heard Doug Gottlieb talking about this yesterday...He said that a normal rule of thumb for coaches is that if you have a top 2 job in your league, that you don't leave unless you get a top 2 job in another league.

Illinois is probably a top 30ish job(not in the top 20 like you suggested though...probably more like 25-30) but its like the 4th best job, at most, in the Big 10.

[Pedro Cerrano]

If Smart is truly holding out for a top-tier job then this might be a wise move.

Think about it. At VCU, he's already a king. A final four appearance and another upset of a higher seed this year -- even if he has a few down years he won't be in any real trouble but will still be a notable name.

If he goes to Illinois and isn't successful, he will likely get passed over by another up and coming coach of a mid major team.

I think if UCLA doesn't show marked improvement soon that job will open up and become a hot commodity amongst the Smarts and Stevens' of the world.

[crissfan172]

I heard Doug Gottlieb talking about this yesterday...He said that a normal rule of thumb for coaches is that if you have a top 2 job in your league, that you don't leave unless you get a top 2 job in another league.

Illinois is probably a top 30ish job(not in the top 20 like you suggested though...probably more like 25-30) but its like the 4th best job, at most, in the Big 10.

Yeah...to me Illinois is probably the 7th best job in the Big Ten, behind (in no order) Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Purdue.

[Sports Guy]

Yeah...to me Illinois is probably the 7th best job in the Big Ten, behind (in no order) Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Purdue.

I disagree with this. You are forgetting the close proximity to Chicago and all the talent there.

Its ahead of Wisconsin and Purdue.

You can debate between Illinois and Michigan.

[beaner]

Calipari to the Wizards ?

Donovan to Kentucky?

Shaka to Florida?

Leonard Hamilton wants Illinois.

[crissfan172]

I disagree with this. You are forgetting the close proximity to Chicago and all the talent there.

Its ahead of Wisconsin and Purdue.

You can debate between Illinois and Michigan.

You're right...that's a great point. I guess I was just thinking in terms of program prestige, rather than recruiting base.

[hoosiers]

I think Illinois is the fifth best gig in the Big Ten. Whether it is fourth or fifth, it is better than a top 30ish job (can't believe I even responded to that one).

A well-above average, but not elite coach should be able to make Illinois a consistent top 25 team with a top 10-15 or better team about once every three or four years. Illinois would have probably been a mainstay in the top 10-20 if Self had stayed, but that school has wasted too many years with the Lon Kreugers and Bruce Webers.

Bo Ryan landed Wisconsin's first 5 star kid either ever or in a long, long time this year. If Ryan starts consistently bringing in elite talent, then it might make a case for a better position.

Haven't participated as much as I'd like in this thread as don't want to turn it into a Big 10 thread, but I think Smart should have given the position much more serious consideration than he did unless he is waiting for a top 10 position to open. There are better programs than a well-run UI one, but it's a pretty darn good job.

[Sports Guy]

I think Illinois is the fifth best gig in the Big Ten. Whether it is fourth or fifth, it is better than a top 30ish job (can't believe I even responded to that one).

A well-above average, but not elite coach should be able to make Illinois a consistent top 25 team with a top 10-15 or better team about once every three or four years. Illinois would have probably been a mainstay in the top 10-20 if Self had stayed, but that school has wasted too many years with the Lon Kreugers and Bruce Webers.

Bo Ryan landed Wisconsin's first 5 star kid either ever or in a long, long time this year. If Ryan starts consistently bringing in elite talent, then it might make a case for a better position.

Haven't participated as much as I'd like in this thread as don't want to turn it into a Big 10 thread, but I think Smart should have given the position much more serious consideration than he did unless he is waiting for a top 10 position to open. There are better programs than a well-run UI one, but it's a pretty darn good job.

You are wrong about that job.

I would say you could make the argument that its inside the top 30 but its definitely closer to the 25 than 15.

As usual, you overrate the big 10 and the schools within. You are to the Little 10 as Gesch was/is to the Big LEast.

[backwardsk]

I disagree with this. You are forgetting the close proximity to Chicago and all the talent there.

Its ahead of Wisconsin and Purdue.

You can debate between Illinois and Michigan.

How's that working out for DePaul?

[Sports Guy]

How's that working out for DePaul?

Not good...but DePaul should be a very good job as well.

[Sports Guy]

Will Illinois be interested in Collins?

Seems like a good fit to me, although I would hate to see him leave the Duke staff.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7723014/duke-chris-collins-interest-illinois-opening

[crissfan172]

You are wrong about that job.

I would say you could make the argument that its inside the top 30 but its definitely closer to the 25 than 15.

As usual, you overrate the big 10 and the schools within. You are to the Little 10 as Gesch was/is to the Big LEast.

Of course...we could just make a list and decide where the jobs rate. Assuming that Illinois is a better job than all the non-BCS schools (except maybe Memphis), here's the programs I would put ahead (or at least right about the same spot) of Illinois.

ACC: Duke, Maryland, UNC

Big Ten: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State

Big East: UConn, Georgetown, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, and Villanova

Big 12: Kansas

Pac 12: Arizona, UCLA

SEC: Kentucky, Florida

So...that's 19 teams. I think you could argue the job is anywhere from 15-25 depending on where you rate some of the programs.

[waroriole]

Of course...we could just make a list and decide where the jobs rate. Assuming that Illinois is a better job than all the non-BCS schools (except maybe Memphis), here's the programs I would put ahead (or at least right about the same spot) of Illinois.

ACC: Duke, Maryland, UNC

Big Ten: Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State

Big East: UConn, Georgetown, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, and Villanova

Big 12: Kansas

Pac 12: Arizona, UCLA

SEC: Kentucky, Florida

So...that's 19 teams. I think you could argue the job is anywhere from 15-25 depending on where you rate some of the programs.

Texas. I don't know that Villanova is better than Illinois though. I think Georgia Tech could be in that mix too, along with Wake. Though the problem there is they've been down for a while now.