I dont think I've ever seen that many O's strike out looking

[CA-ORIOLE]

Whats your point? Go back and read Ted's advice and then explain to me in your superior wisdom why he's wrong.

If you sit and watch two strikes go by with your bat on your shoulders, you're down two strikes. The league BA with 2 strikes is pretty darn low. If the umps are calling strikes just outside the corner, then it's a strike, whether you like it or not. It's not that hard. I'm sure Teddyballgame would get it.

But more important, each should learn the strike zone....

[El Gordo]

If you sit and watch two strikes go by with your bat on your shoulders, you're down two strikes. The league BA with 2 strikes is pretty darn low. If the umps are calling strikes just outside the corner, then it's a strike, whether you like it or not. It's not that hard. I'm sure Teddyballgame would get it.

Who's advocting sitting and watching two strikes go by? You change your approach as the count changes. You seem to be advocating protecting the strike zone from the first pitch in the hopes you'll get a wallk. I suppose that workS for Abreu.

[MurphDogg]

When you have two strikes and the pitch (even if it's slightly off the plate) is likely to be called a strike, I think meets the criteria of "when the situation demands it". When the situatioin demands it, is a huge gray area as well.

If you ignore what the umps strike zone is that day you are just being ignorant.

If you swing at a pitch four inches off the outside corner, it is more than likely going to be a weak groundout. Is that really much better than a strikeout, especially with a runner on first and less than two outs?

[CA-ORIOLE]

Who's advocting sitting and watching two strikes go by? You change your approach as the count changes. You seem to be advocating protecting the strike zone from the first pitch in the hopes you'll get a wallk. I suppose that workS for Abreu.

You also need to change your approach based on the strike zone. I'm telling you the same thing RZNJ is telling you and actually what Teddy ballgame is telling you, if you read it. You have to know the strike zone. That is the most important thing. If off the outside corner is a strike then you can't sit there and take too many of them and that's exactly what we did. You can't do that and then whine about the strike zone. The Yankees swung at many of those pitches and drove them to the opposite field. Our best effort of the night was Nolan Reimold's feeble attempt (which actually worked). The fact is they are better hitters than we are, I get that. In many cases we were taking first pitch strikes more towards the middle of the plate. Maybe the hitters didn't swing at those because they weren't in the happy zone, maybe Garcia was wild and they wanted to make him throw more pitches. In any event event, we did not make the adjustments.

[CA-ORIOLE]

If you swing at a pitch four inches off the outside corner, it is more than likely going to be a weak groundout. Is that really much better than a strikeout, especially with a runner on first and less than two outs?

As has already been stated, those are extreme examples. Most of the calls were just off the corner of the plate or on the black. The expanded strike zone is nothing new. It may have been more apparent the past couple days (and a few of those calls were ridiculous), but offense has been down two years in a row because they don't want three to three and half hour games anymore. Guys are swinging at more pitches out of the zone or on the black because they are being called strikes.

[El Gordo]

You also need to change your approach based on the strike zone. I'm telling you the same thing RZNJ is telling you and actually what Teddy ballgame is telling you, if you read it. You have to know the strike zone. If off the outside corner is a strike then you can't sit there and take too many of them and that's exactly what we did. You can't do that and then whine about the strike zone. The Yankees swung at many of those pitches and drove them to the opposite field. Our best effort of the night was Nolan Reimold's feeble attempt (which actually worked). The fact is they are better hitters than we are, I get that. In many cases we were taking first pitch strikes more towards the middle of the plate. Maybe the hitters didn't swing at those because they weren't in the happy zone, maybe Garcia was wild and they wanted to make him throw more pitches. In any event event, we did not make the adjustments.

Are you saying that if the ump's strike zone is wide, you should swing at a first pitch that is out of your zone, becuase it might be called a strike, even though swinging at it is useless, since your batting average on that location is under the Mendoza line? Whatever.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Are you saying that if the ump's strike zone is wide, you should swing at a first pitch that is out of your zone, becuase it might be called a strike, even though swinging at it is useless, since your batting average on that location is under the Mendoza line? Whatever.

Yeah, misrepresent my my position and throw out your strawman. Always nice when you're losing and par for the course. Like RZNJ said, you can stick your head in the sand and avoid reality. The fact is the Yankees are a much more patient team than we are and they went down swinging at many of the same pitches that we went down looking at last night.

[El Gordo]

Yeah, misrepresent my my position and throw out your strawman. Always nice when you're losing and par for the course. Like RZNJ said, you can stick your head in the sand and avoid reality. The fact is the Yankees are a much more patient team than we are and they went down swinging at many of the same pitches that we went down looking at last night.

Are you telling me that Ted Williams would advocate swinging at a pitch you can't hit, becuise the strike zone is wider? If you can't hit it, you can't hit it. If it's down the middle of the plate, and you can't hit that, then what are you doing in the ML. If its a border line pitch, there's better chance of it being called a ball, than you being able to do anything with it. I am not advocating the approach the O's took last night. I didn't see the game, so I can't tell what pitches they were taking. But unless you have two strikes it doesn't make senes to swing at a pitch you can't hit just because it might be called a strike. But again, Whatever.

[Frobby]

Are you telling me that Ted Williams would advocate swinging at a pitch you can't hit, becuise the strike zone is wider? If you can't hit it, you can't hit it. If it's down the middle of the plate, and you can't hit that, then what are you doing in the ML. If its a border line pitch, there's better chance of it being called a ball, than you being able to do anything with it. I am not advocating the approach the O's took last night. I didn't see the game, so I can't tell what pitches they were taking. But unless you have two strikes it doesn't make senes to swing at a pitch you can't hit just because it might be called a strike. But again, Whatever.

This argument between the two of you is silly. I don't think anybody is advocating swinging at a pitch that is really a ball, but has regularly been called a strike that day, on the first pitch of the at bat. But when you have two strikes, and the pitch is in a spot that has routinely been called a strike, you have to try to hit it. And if the first pitch is down the heart of the plate, as it frequently was in the later innings last night, you'd better swing at it, because you likely won't get a pitch that good later in the at bat. Does either of you actually disagree with anything I just said? I certainly don't think the quote from Ted Williams says anything different than this.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Are you telling me that Ted Williams would advocate swinging at a pitch you can't hit, becuise the strike zone is wider? If you can't hit it, you can't hit it. If it's down the middle of the plate, and you can't hit that, then what are you doing in the ML. If its a border line pitch, there's better chance of it being called a ball, than you being able to do anything with it. I am not advocating the approach the O's took last night. I didn't see the game, so I can't tell what pitches they were taking. But unless you have two strikes it doesn't make senes to swing at a pitch you can't hit just because it might be called a strike. But again, Whatever.

I've already explained to you there is a difference between "can't hit" and would "prefer not to hit" and that Teddyballgame's most improtant point was to "know the strike zone". The Yankees recognized the strike zone last night and made the adjustments. We didn't and/or couldn't.

If it's a border line pitch, there's better chance of it being called a ball, than you being able to do anything with it.

Yeah, you definitely weren't watching the game last night. Nor do you recognize what is going on the past couple of years. Anything borderline outside corner was a strike and the Yankees knew what to do with them.

[CA-ORIOLE]

This argument between the two of you is silly. I don't think anybody is advocating swinging at a pitch that is really a ball, but has regularly been called a strike that day, on the first pitch of the at bat. But when you have two strikes, and the pitch is in a spot that has routinely been called a strike, you have to try to hit it. And if the first pitch is down the heart of the plate, as it frequently was in the later innings last night, you'd better swing at it, because you likely won't get a pitch that good later in the at bat. Does either of you actually disagree with anything I just said? I certainly don't think the quote from Ted Williams says anything different than this.

No, but I didn't say it in the first place. I do think you can't just routinely let yourself get to two strikes and may need to expand your hitting zone before that if the strike zone is bigger though. That probably means hitting more to the opposite field.

[El Gordo]

This argument between the two of you is silly. I don't think anybody is advocating swinging at a pitch that is really a ball, but has regularly been called a strike that day, on the first pitch of the at bat. But when you have two strikes, and the pitch is in a spot that has routinely been called a strike, you have to try to hit it. And if the first pitch is down the heart of the plate, as it frequently was in the later innings last night, you'd better swing at it, because you likely won't get a pitch that good later in the at bat. Does either of you actually disagree with anything I just said? I certainly don't think the quote from Ted Williams says anything different than this.

I certainly don't disagree. How has any thing I have said been any different. My point has always been that you shouldn't swing at pitches you can't hit, unless it's two strikes. In that case you have to protect the plate.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I certainly don't disagree. How has any thing I have said been any different. My point has always been that you shouldn't swing at pitches you can't hit, unless it's two strikes. In that case you have to protect the plate.

And the real point/difference here is "can't hit" and "would prefer not to hit by expanding your zone," based on what the strike zone is. In practical terms that encompasses hitting the ball to the opposite field.

[Frobby]

No, but I didn't say it in the first place. I do think you can't just routinely let yourself get to two strikes and may need to expand your hitting zone before that if the strike zone is bigger though. That probably means hitting more to the opposite field.

Depends on the hitter, the pitcher, and the count, I suppose. But in last night's game, I observed plenty of first-pitch strikes that were right down the middle, so the issue of the borderline pitch doesn't even come up in that situation.

[Frobby]

And the real point/difference here is "can't hit" and "would prefer not to hit by expanding your zone," based on what the strike zone is. In practical terms that encompasses hitting the ball to the opposite field.

Not many hitters can do much with a pitch 2-3 inches off the plate and at the knees. If you figure you are a .150 hitter on those pitches, I see no reason to swing at them until you have two strikes.