Ivan Rodriguez to Retire Monday

[scOtt]

I think he's a no-doubter as well, but I remember some rumors surfacing about steroid use at one point. Never proven, though.

IIRC that stemmed from losing a lot of weight after the first league-wide (non-binding) drug tests. Like you said, just speculation.

[crissfan172]

IIRC that stemmed from losing a lot of weight after the first league-wide (non-binding) drug tests. Like you said, just speculation.

It also has a lot to do with Canseco saying that he personally injected him with steroids.

[OFFNY]

It also has a lot to do with Canseco saying that he personally injected him with steroids.

Oh, yeah. That guy that everybody makes fun of, but then they aren't laughing so hard when just about every word that he says turns out to be true.

Canseco's motives may not be noble, but I would believe anything that he says more than anyone else regarding the steroid era.

[waroriole]

I really don't think it's that close. Berra was a much, much better hitter than Rodriguez. Rodriguez makes up some of that with the glove (I'll grant that he was better, but not by enough). Only if you think that catcher defense can be accurately measured 60 years after the fact and if you have a ton of faith in modern catcher defense metrics can you believe that Rodriguez was as good as Berra.

Yeah, I may have been hasty in saying that. Pudge was great in his prime, but stuck around way too long.

[DrungoHazewood]

Does he deserve to get in? Yes.

Will he? Probably not.

The only way he doesn't get in would be if he gets Bagwelled. And, IMO, that just means he's delayed. In 10 or 15 years I think almost everyone from this era will eventually get in if their performances merited it.

By rWAR he's tied with the other Pudge for 2nd all time among players who played 50%+ of their games at catcher. Behind only Bench, and only by about 6 wins.

Berra.

I'll take Pudge, but its close.

I really don't think it's that close. Berra was a much, much better hitter than Rodriguez. Rodriguez makes up some of that with the glove (I'll grant that he was better, but not by enough). Only if you think that catcher defense can be accurately measured 60 years after the fact and if you have a ton of faith in modern catcher defense metrics can you believe that Rodriguez was as good as Berra.

It's pretty close, but I'd say you have to lean towards Pudge. In best 1/3/5 year period Berra is better, but by about a win in each. In best 10 seasons (by bb-ref) Pudge is ahead by about a win. So they're almost even on peak, but Pudge played quite a bit longer.

By Total Zone Pudge is about 13 wins ahead on defense.

In whole career numbers Fangraphs has Pudge ahead by about 2 wins, bb-ref has Pudge ahead by about 5.

Yeah, I may have been hasty in saying that. Pudge was great in his prime, but stuck around way too long.

I'm probably a broken record here, but I fail to see how anyone who can still do a reasonable job and enjoys himself is sticking around too long. Pudge had no responsibility (IMO) to make sure everyone always remembered him at his peak. He had a responsibility to do what he liked, and what was good for him and his family, as long as he cared to.

[SteveA]

I believe with Pudge's retirement, that leaves Jamie Moyer, Jim Thome, and Omar Vizquel as the only active players that played at Memorial Stadium.

I don't know if Arthur Rhodes is still seeking employment and thus could be considered "active" or could become active. He is on the offseason free agent list and never officially announced his retirement. I don't know if he's hanging out in bars punching police officers like Vlad, or if he is staying in shape and still trying to hook on with a team like Johnny Damon did.

[scOtt]

Yogi has 8 rings? I know it's more than one hand full.

But Pudge (II ) is definitely in. I think... he's a second ballot. First ballot is split, like 50%. Second ballot is "WHAT were we thinking???"

[DrungoHazewood]

I believe with Pudge's retirement, that leaves Jamie Moyer, Jim Thome, and Omar Vizquel as the only active players that played at Memorial Stadium.

I'm almost certain Manny played at Memorial as a member of the Canton-Akron Indians in 1993, when it was the Baysox' temporary home.

[SteveA]

I'm almost certain Manny played at Memorial as a member of the Canton-Akron Indians in 1993, when it was the Baysox' temporary home.

Oooohhhh, good one!

And Ray Lewis, Mark Brunell, and probably a couple kickers played there for or against the Ravens in 1996-97.

[Tom13206]

Pudge is definitely worthy if I had a vote