O's would "do anything" to trade Reynolds and Gregg

[GoGoPower]

well the other team actually has to make the double play. On a strike out there is no chance of the other team dropping the ball. Look if you are on the other team and you hit it towards reynolds good chance you get on base. And Mark Reynolds has hit into a least a couple of double plays this season. Make the other team earn it. And you can score a run on a double play.

Incorrect.

In fact, so far this season, Pedro Alvarez has reached base more often by striking out (once) than he has by putting the ball in play (zero).

[The Rick]

Good post, The Rick.

Thank you, I'm good for a couple a year.

[Kevin Lomax]

Incorrect.

In fact, so far this season, Pedro Alvarez has reached base more often by striking out (once) than he has by putting the ball in play (zero).

Excellent find.

[jamalshw]

Your right about not knowing the 2011 LA OBP. You're wrong about Reynolds being below it. Why not try looking up numbers before you cite them.

To expand on this:

In 2011: Reynolds had an OBP of .323, the AL had on OBP of .322, the NL of .319 and all of major league baseball averaged .320.

That puts Reynolds slightly above average.

In 2010, you are right, he was below average (though his offensive output was notably hindered at the end of the year due to injury), still he fell .004 behind his fellow NLers and .005 behind all of baseball.

To me, those numbers show a player with an average OBP.

Overall, we have a guy with great power, average on-base skills, poor contact skills and the inability (based on 2011 and the start of 2012) to field.

To me, that equals a solid DH.

[atomic]

I actually do agree that putting the ball in play is preferable to striking out, this fangraph's article explains that, and I agree with the logic behind it. That said, where you are wrong here is that striking out a ton doesn't automatically make you a poor offensive player. He still hit 37 home runs and had an OPS of .806. All this means is that if he had struck out say, 50 times less last season, he would have collected about 16 more hits (if he adhered to his career BABIP average, + any homers that came from these non-strikeouts/balls not in play), which would have added about 30 points to his BA.

So yes, without as many strike outs, he could be better, but he is what he is. He's going to strike out a ton, but he still has value offensively. So to recap: Reynolds is a good offensive player, Reynolds strikes out a ton, Reynolds would go from good offensive player to better offensive player if he didn't strike out as much.

This article doesn't really provide statistical anaylis of strike outs on runs. I will do a quick look at Arizona before and after they got rid of 2 strike out kings

2010 Arizona 2011 Arizona

713 731 runs

1529 1249 strike outs

180 172 home runs

589 531 walks

.250 .250 ba

.325 .322 obp

.419 .413 slugging percentage.

so average was the same but less walks and home runs and they still scored more runs. Hmm interesting.

[atomic]

To expand on this:

In 2011: Reynolds had an OBP of .323, the AL had on OBP of .322, the NL of .319 and all of major league baseball averaged .320.

That puts Reynolds slightly above average.

In 2010, you are right, he was below average (though his offensive output was notably hindered at the end of the year due to injury), still he fell .004 behind his fellow NLers and .005 behind all of baseball.

To me, those numbers show a player with an average OBP.

Overall, we have a guy with great power, average on-base skills, poor contact skills and the inability (based on 2011 and the start of 2012) to field.

To me, that equals a solid DH.

You do know national league has pitchers. Is the OBP in national league for position players only or for all players?

[MrOrange82]

If a person is absolutely, positively convinced, despite all evidence to the contrary, that the Earth is flat, the sky is plaid, and porcelain dolls the world over are conspiring to steal his Skittle wrapper collection, do you try to "show him the light," or do you stand back and wait for the white coats?

For my part, I'm standing back.

[The Rick]

This article doesn't really provide statistical anaylis of strike outs on runs. I will do a quick look at Arizona before and after they got rid of 2 strike out kings

2010 Arizona 2011 Arizona

713 731 runs

1529 1249 strike outs

180 172 home runs

589 531 walks

.250 .250 ba

.325 .322 obp

.419 .413 slugging percentage.

so average was the same but less walks and home runs and they still scored more runs. Hmm interesting.

So you think any of that has anything to do whatsoever with Mark Reynolds departure and not with factors such as other lineup turnover, opposing pitchers faced in 2011 vs. 2010, the fact that 18 runs over the course of a 162 game season isn't much to write home about, etc, etc, etc.?

[OFFNY]

Reynolds is worse than Gregg so he isn't even the worst player on this team.

I think an argument can be made that Gregg is worse.

Please don't call my bluff, though.

[mcinww0]

I'm not sure why they're so desperate to move Reynolds- his defense is rough but his bat is solid.

According to Bill James' Abe Lincoln score system, a form of FIP but for offense, Mark Reynolds is about league average, which is more than can be said for most of our team from last year. I would post a link but my account expired a few weeks ago. The homers and walks make up the k's, and who else would play 3rd consistently? Betemit? Flaherty? I say keep Reynolds this year, and let him walk in 2013. Machado should be close enough by then to get by.

Moving gregg is a necessity for this team to move forward, something few here will dispute.

I thought the most interesting part of the espn article was that the scouts think arrieta, wieters, and jones have taken a step forward and what we are seeing from them is here to stay.

[atomic]

So you think any of that has anything to do whatsoever with Mark Reynolds departure and not with factors such as other lineup turnover, opposing pitchers faced in 2011 vs. 2010, the fact that 18 runs over the course of a 162 game season isn't much to write home about, etc, etc, etc.?

they had less extra base hits. less home runs, less walks, and the same batting average yet they scored more runs. It is just one instance and doesn't mean anything by itself but i would be interested in seeing similar situations follow the same pattern. of course it is hard to get rid of that many strike outs in one year.

[atomic]

I thought the most interesting part of the espn article was that the scouts think arrieta, wieters, and jones have taken a step forward and what we are seeing from them is here to stay.

I tend to agree with this.

[NewMarketSean]

Reynolds has good OBP compared to his average. If he could just collect 10-15 more hits he'd be a .350 OBP guy.

[OFFNY]

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Alright, stick 'em up, everybody. This thread is being hijacked. The Yankees lead the Red Sox 5-2 after 5 complete. :laughlol:

[mcinww0]

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Alright, stick 'em up, everybody. This thread is being hijacked. The Yankees lead the Red Sox 5-2 after 5 complete. :laughlol:

When is Fenway's 100th anniversary? That is the first and only game this year in which I will be rooting all out for the Yankees.