Kevin Youkilis traded soon! (traded to White Sox)

[El Gordo]

My hope is LAA trades for him, and we can get Izturis or Callaspo for 3B. They are both good fielders, and SH, and the are decent with the bat. About as good as Betemit. So we can keep him away from 3B and just DHHIM against RHSP.

[LA2]

Yep, Eddie was lazy. He wouldn't even run like a maniac on a routine ground ball. He the team and winning. Good thing we ran his ass out of town.

Yeah and we should have dumped Blair and Belanger early too--those bums didn't get their uniforms dirty enough either!

[Rene88]

It makes me chuckle that the Red Sox want a top prospect for him. Good luck with that.

[Can_of_corn]

Yeah and we should have dumped Blair and Belanger early too--those bums didn't get their uniforms dirty enough either!

I hate to tell you this but Pickles was mocking me with this post. He/She wasn't being serious.

[Pickles]

I hate to tell you this but Pickles was mocking me with this post. He/She wasn't being serious.

I was indeed, good catch.

I'm thinking though that this guy was joining in on the fun. I hope so at least. As Blair and Belanger were two of the greatest defensive players to ever playt the game, I think how "dirty" they got their uniforms wouldn't get taken into account.

[Can_of_corn]

I was indeed, good catch.

I'm thinking though that this guy was joining in on the fun. I hope so at least. As Blair and Belanger were two of the greatest defensive players to ever playt the game, I think how "dirty" they got their uniforms wouldn't get taken into account.

Yea I see that now, I had just woken up and felt a need to defend your use of sarcasm.

I stand by the fact that Eddie didn't dive for balls. Not saying he wasn't a great player but he is a great example of why fielding percentage is a bad way to judge defense. Which was the point I was making.

[Pickles]

Yea I see that now, I had just woken up and felt a need to defend your use of sarcasm.

I stand by the fact that Eddie didn't dive for balls. Not saying he wasn't a great player but he is a great example of why fielding percentage is a bad way to judge defense. Which was the point I was making.

I don't disagree with the point you're making regarding FP.

I just happen to think the "Eddie is lazy" meme is ridiculous.

[Can_of_corn]

I don't disagree with the point you're making regarding FP.

I just happen to think the "Eddie is lazy" meme is ridiculous.

Wasn't calling him lazy. Eddie didn't dive because (remembering quotes from years ago) he didn't think the injury risk was worth the low likelihood of making the play. Kinda the polar opposite of Fred Lynn who would dive for everything and was constantly hurt.

[Pickles]

Wasn't calling him lazy. Eddie didn't dive because (remembering quotes from years ago) he didn't think the injury risk was worth the low likelihood of making the play. Kinda the polar opposite of Fred Lynn who would dive for everything and was constantly hurt.

So what is your point about Murray exactly?

He wasn't a good fielder because he didn't dive? Does diving equate to good defense? Murray was universally regarded as a good defensive first baseman, but that's negated because he didn't dive? He won 3 GGs, BP has him +18 for his career; fangraphs has him +60, and yes, BBRef has him -12.

[Can_of_corn]

So what is your point about Murray exactly?

He wasn't a good fielder because he didn't dive? Does diving equate to good defense? Murray was universally regarded as a good defensive first baseman, but that's negated because he didn't dive? He won 3 GGs, BP has him +18 for his career; fangraphs has him +60, and yes, BBRef has him -12.

How did I not explain my point? Eddie didn't, after about 1980 or so, try and make low percentage plays. By avoiding those types of plays his fielding percentage was kept at a high level.

Pretty simple concept.

[Pickles]

How did I not explain my point? Eddie didn't, after about 1980 or so, try and make low percentage plays. By avoiding those types of plays his fielding percentage was kept at a high level.

Pretty simple concept.

So he was a bad fielder?

But that flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

[Can_of_corn]

So he was a bad fielder?

But that flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

Where in the blazes did I say he was a bad fielder? I said his fielding percentage was artificially high because he wouldn't attempt lower percentage plays.

[Pickles]

Where in the blazes did I say he was a bad fielder? I said his fielding percentage was artificially high because he wouldn't attempt lower percentage plays.

So Eddie didn't dive for balls, but you're not calling him lazy, and he allowed balls to go for hits that other first baseman would have made attempts on and presumably gotten to a few of them, but you're not calling him a bad fielder.

Interesting. I'm simply following what you're saying out to it's logical conclusion.

[Can_of_corn]

So Eddie didn't dive for balls, but you're not calling him lazy, and he allowed balls to go for hits that other first baseman would have made attempts on and presumably gotten to a few of them, but you're not calling him a bad fielder.

Interesting. I'm simply following what you're saying out to it's logical conclusion.

Well you are not doing it very well.

Laziness was not Murray's motivation for not diving for balls.

Just because Murry might have been able to make plays that he didn't attempt does not mean he was a bad fielder. Murray might very well have been right when he chose not to dive and the plays would not have resulted in outs anyway.

[Can_of_corn]

Pickles is right. You are not being logical. If a fielder does not attempt low percentage plays, which itself means that there are some plays that could be made that he doesn't even try for, that would pretty much make him a bad fielder. It also doesn't make sense to say that it would have negatively affected his fielding percentage. If a fielder dives for a ball and doesn't come up with it, it is always going to be called a hit.

Your logic would call a CF with no range a good fielder because he catches everything he gets too. If you are accusing Murray of not trying to make the tough play then essentially you are saying he had no range.

It wouldn't necessarily make that player a bad fielder. It could very well make them an average fielder when they would otherwise be above average.

You have never seen a player dive for a ball, it come out of their glove and they get called for an error? I have, fairly regularly. I have never seen a player called for an error when it was a ball, range wise, they should have gotten to.