Kevin Youkilis traded soon! (traded to White Sox)

[Pickles]

It wouldn't necessarily make that player a bad fielder. It could very well make them an average fielder when they would otherwise be above average.

You have never seen a player dive for a ball, it come out of their glove and they get called for an error? I have, fairly regularly. I have never seen a player called for an error when it was a ball, range wise, they should have gotten to.

If you're not calling Murray a bad fielder, why use him as an example of a fielder who was overrated due to his fp? Surely, there are better examples.

[Can_of_corn]

Fairly regularly??? I called TOTAL BS on that one!

Differing definitions. It isn't a noteworthy occurrence when it happens.

[wildcard]

I would never have guessed that a Youkilis being traded thread could bleed over into a Eddie not being a good defender thread 14 years after Eddie stopped playing and 9 years after he was inducted into the HOF?

Whatever Eddie did defensively it didn't stop him from getting the highest recognition that any baseball player can get.

[Can_of_corn]

I know it's Sunday morning, but you are so full of it, it's coming out of your ears. First, you see players dive for balls that they don't catch and see them called for errors fairly regularly. Now, you think a play when a player dives for a ball, doesn't come up with it, and is called an error, isn't noteworthy. Of course it's noteworthy, because it NEVER HAPPENS!!!!! I'm sure it has happened sometime somewhere. It just doesn't happen REGULARLY. If it happens regularly, as you say, I'm sure you can point me to at least one time when it did.

P.S. If it happens fairly regularly, it must have happened to an Oriole player this year. ANYONE remember when an O's player got called for an error on such a play? EVER?

OK, I am exaggerating the frequency. I have seen it happen, more often in the outfield.

I did just find this quote which relates back to the point I was making earlier.

The only time I don’t dive for a ball to my right is if it’s a slow grounder. I’ll let those go into left field. The runner’s going to beat the throw, so it’s stupid to risk injury on a play that’s not going to get you an out. I know sometimes fans don’t understand that. I hear them yelling, “Why didn’t you dive for that ball?’’ (I hope those particular fans read this . . . )

http://brandon.mlblogs.com/tag/brandon-crawford/

[El Gordo]

Fairly regularly??? I called TOTAL BS on that one!

Why do you think Elvis Andrus had 25 E's last year? Because he blew 25 routine plays?

[El Gordo]

Do you think he got even ONE of those errors on a ball he dove for and didn't catch?

That doesn't mean that 25 errors were on routine plays although I know that some were.

Probabaly. And several were on routine plays. Most were TE's in all likelyhood. My point is that FP is a poor way to characterize defense. First because it's the subjective judgement of the scorer who often has a home town bias, and second because it rewards players of limited range, like Jeter. Yesterday was a good example, Betemit should have had a 2R E on the play he failed to make. Both runs should have been unearned, IMO.

[El Gordo]

I agree and never said anything different, which makes it odd that we are even talking. As for you saying that at least one of Andrus' errors came on a ball he dove for and didn't catch, I would say probably NOT.

P.S. I have been watching baseball on TV and in person for over 40 years. I do not recall ever seeing an infielder dive for a ball, not come up with it, and being given an error. I'm not saying it didn't happen. BUT I would say it is a VERY RARE occurrence if it has. With all of the people that post here, there must be someone who has seen it??????

Andrus had 15 FE of the 25 E's. I doubt all of them were routine plays.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Andrus had 15 FE of the 25 E's. I doubt all of them were routine plays.

Yeah, some ss/3b and to a lesser extent some 2b are going to be prone to making throwing errors. Many on plays that would likely have not been even fielded by thier more sure handed/lesser range counterparts. I'm not sure how that relates to the issue/discussion with Murray though.

[CA-ORIOLE]

So what is your point about Murray exactly?

He wasn't a good fielder because he didn't dive? Does diving equate to good defense? Murray was universally regarded as a good defensive first baseman, but that's negated because he didn't dive? He won 3 GGs, BP has him +18 for his career; fangraphs has him +60, and yes, BBRef has him -12.

Where do you see minus 12 on BBref? I see plus 61 by TZ/rtot. Which should be the same system used by fangraphs for players of that era.

[RayC]

I hope the O's are being stealthy about Youkilis...i might look favorably on a trade for Arrieta? that way Betemit and Reynolds could DH with Davis returning to 1B.

[Greg]

Just got traded to whitesox

[SteveA]

Just got traded to whitesox

The White Sox announcers, during the game on WGN (which is in the bottom of the 10th, still tied), just said "There is an announcement to be made after the game".

[SteveA]

The White Sox announcers, during the game on WGN (which is in the bottom of the 10th, still tied), just said "There is an announcement to be made after the game".

Game just ended on a walkoff hit, so announcement will probably be made after the commercial break.

[waroriole]

Lillibridge and Stewart to BOS.

[isestrex]

Thank goodness it's not here.

I can breathe a sigh of relief.