This team won't finish above .500 and they should be sellers!

[Va Beach O's fan]

I hate to say it but I have to agree with the fact that we aren't legitimate contenders this year.

We've kind of been a "smoke and mirrors" team up to this point, winning a TON of close games thanks to our bullpen and the longball offensively.

But you have to face the facts, we are in the toughest division in all of major league baseball and we are bringing a knife to a gunfight 3 out of every 5 games with Hunter, Matusz and Arrieta. Arrieta is the only one of those three I have any real confidence in that he can put together a solid appearance but even that has eroded over the course of this year.

We are 9 games over .500 and I think we've gotten literally everything we could possibly expect out of this team at this point in the season and we are what, a game or two out of missing the playoffs all together as a wild card team.

We aren't catching the Yankees, even the staunchest "O's are fine" posters will have to admit that. So we are competing with the Angels, the Rays, the White Sox, the Indians, the Tigers and probably the Red Sox for the two wild card spots (I don't see Toronto having the pitching to contend either now that Morrow is out for 2 months).

We have the worst pitching of anyone in that group outside of maybe Cleveland. The Red Sox are probably the next closest team but their offense is raking and they don't even have Crawford or Ellsbury in the lineup currently.

The Tigers have been struggling a little so far but will probably get things turned around soon. So the real question is, can we legitimately compete for a wild card spot the rest of the season with the teams I listed. I'm sorry, I just simply don't see it with our current rotation.

Also, that is completely ignoring how terrible the offense is right now. All of the "O's are fine" defenders continue to repeat the "it's a game of slumps and streaks" mantra and just counting on things to turn around any day now.

But let's face it, we are batting some AAAA guys in the lineup every night, guys like Davis, Pearce, Tolleson, Andino etc. Nick Johnson is consuming a roster spot for pretty much no reason right now. Betemit is a switch hitter that can only hit from one side of the plate and is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Reynolds is the all time strikeout leader and is hitting way under his usual power numbers so far this season. He is also a complete butcher in the field.

Reimold is done for the season. Who knows if and when Roberts will ever be the same (he doesn't have a single extra base hit so far this season)? Hardy is a number 7 or 8 hitter being forced to hit in the 2 hole because we have no better options.

There is also very little QUALITY depth at AAA. Lew Ford is probably the best hitter we can call up and Chris Tillman or Zack Britton is probably the best pitcher.

So let's face it, we probably AREN'T going to be a wild card team this season with that roster. If you want to keep believing, more power to you because god knows this fanbase needs something to believe in. But I'm sorry, with Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter making up 3/5

s of our current roster, a team that is struggling to produce anything offensively and is just horrible with runners is scoring position, a team that is one of the worst in all of baseball at fielding the ball, I simply just do not see us being competitive in the toughest division in baseball over the course of 162 games.

It really hurts me to type this, but I just do not see the ability to stay competitive on the roster as it is currently constructed. Now, if we make a trade or two and move some prospects for some quality major league players like Garza or Headley, then we can talk about competing for that wild card spot. But right now, no one being honest with themselves can think this team is playoff bound with the way they have played over the last two weeks or so.

[Va Beach O's fan]

Agreed. Through five innings Matusz gave up 3 runs. The rest came in the sixth against Matusz on a home run and against the B-Team (putting that generously) of the bullpen. I'm not all that concerned.

Even if we do no trades at all this season we could conceivably get Lindstrom, Markakis, and Britton back in the next few weeks. That could provide a pretty good boost.

Wait what???? Matusz was terrible all night long, what game were you watching? The Angels ran themselves out of two potentially huge innings, giving Matusz big outs with men on base when he and his 87 mph fastball were getting rocked all over the park.

The scoreline doesn't come close to accurately reflecting how bad he was in that game. How can people defend that performance, if you even want to call it that?

[J.D.]

I hate to say it but I have to agree with the fact that we aren't legitimate contenders this year.

We've kind of been a "smoke and mirrors" team up to this point' date=' winning a TON of close games thanks to our bullpen and the longball offensively.

But you have to face the facts, we are in the toughest division in all of major league baseball and we are bringing a knife to a gunfight 3 out of every 5 games with Hunter, Matusz and Arrieta. Arrieta is the only one of those three I have any real confidence in that he can put together a solid appearance but even that has eroded over the course of this year.

We are 9 games over .500 and I think we've gotten literally everything we could possibly expect out of this team at this point in the season and we are what, a game or two out of missing the playoffs all together as a wild card team.

We aren't catching the Yankees, even the staunchest "O's are fine" posters will have to admit that. So we are competing with the Angels, the Rays, the White Sox, the Indians, the Tigers and probably the Red Sox for the two wild card spots (I don't see Toronto having the pitching to contend either now that Morrow is out for 2 months).

We have the worst pitching of anyone in that group outside of maybe Cleveland. The Red Sox are probably the next closest team but their offense is raking and they don't even have Crawford or Ellsbury in the lineup currently.

The Tigers have been struggling a little so far but will probably get things turned around soon. So the real question is, can we legitimately compete for a wild card spot the rest of the season with the teams I listed. I'm sorry, I just simply don't see it with our current rotation.

Also, that is completely ignoring how terrible the offense is right now. All of the "O's are fine" defenders continue to repeat the "it's a game of slumps and streaks" mantra and just counting on things to turn around any day now.

But let's face it, we are batting some AAAA guys in the lineup every night, guys like Davis, Pearce, Tolleson, Andino etc. Nick Johnson is consuming a roster spot for pretty much no reason right now. Betemit is a switch hitter that can only hit from one side of the plate and is one of the worst defenders I've ever seen. Reynolds is the all time strikeout leader and is hitting way under his usual power numbers so far this season. He is also a complete butcher in the field.

Reimold is done for the season. Who knows if and when Roberts will ever be the same (he doesn't have a single extra base hit so far this season)? Hardy is a number 7 or 8 hitter being forced to hit in the 2 hole because we have no better options.

There is also very little QUALITY depth at AAA. Lew Ford is probably the best hitter we can call up and Chris Tillman or Zack Britton is probably the best pitcher.

So let's face it, we probably AREN'T going to be a wild card team this season with that roster. If you want to keep believing, more power to you because god knows this fanbase needs something to believe in. But I'm sorry, with Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter making up 3/5

s of our current roster, a team that is struggling to produce anything offensively and is just horrible with runners is scoring position, a team that is one of the worst in all of baseball at fielding the ball, I simply just do not see us being competitive in the toughest division in baseball over the course of 162 games.

It really hurts me to type this, but I just do not see the ability to stay competitive on the roster as it is currently constructed. Now, if we make a trade or two and move some prospects for some quality major league players like Garza or Headley, then we can talk about competing for that wild card spot. [b']But right now, no one being honest with themselves can think this team is playoff bound with the way they have played over the last two weeks or so.[/b]

You mean the last two weeks in which they've gone 7-6 against some of the best pitching in baseball, and a good chunk of them in National League parks without the DH? Or would you rather look at going 12-10 for the month?

I really do love that people continually sit here waiting for the wheels fall off. It's the end of June, and it hasn't happened yet. Maybe it will, but I wonder how long they'll have to be 9 games over .500 for people to really buy into them?

And I'm not trying to say that the team doesn't have issues. Far from it. They could obviously use some help in the line-up, the back end of the rotation's been shaky, they need a third baseman like no body's business. At the same time, it's also a team playing without Markakis in left and are replacing him with a guy hitting .178, a guy hitting .220, and a guy that two different major league franchises said good-bye to this year (though admittedly he's been reasonably solid in Nick's absence). So the line-up automatically gets better again at, say, the All-Star Break when Nick comes back. You also have Britton on the track back that can bump Hunter from the rotation. Arrieta, in case no one's been paying attention, has pitched really well in his last few starts. And even Matusz, despite tonight, has taken a few hard losses of late. And that's internally. That's not even looking at what they might do via trade.

And yes, zero1, I have looked at the offensive stats and what you posted and, frankly, you can post them all day and I won't care. It's ignoring Markakis' absence, it's ignoring Reynolds' absence and slow start, it's ignoring some other players that are slumping and producing below what we've seen them be able to produce. There's room for improvement without this team acquiring anyone to improve itself, and all indications are that they're willing to do something to improve themselves anyway.

At the very least, chill out and see where they are after they get to face Cleveland and Seattle coming up, then Detroit, Cleveland and Minnesota right after the break.

[Dr. FLK]

<img src="http://jolenephilo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/debbie-downer.jpg">

I don't see them being sellers. Even if they fade before the break, I think they'll want to keep the perception that they are "close". Maybe a move here or there, but I don't see anything close to "selling" occurring this year. This team is solid. It needs another big bat or 2, could use more starting, and obviously some depth. But this is not a team that should be looking to "sell" off a bunch of parts.

[NewMarketSean]

But if we win tomorrow are we legit playoff contenders? :scratchchinhmm:

Just a reactionary post.

3 for 40 with RISP?

Bad defense?

Inconsistent pitching?

That is not reactionary.

[Va Beach O's fan]

Btw I also agree we should not be sellers. I hate the argument that just because you may not be a playoff team THIS YEAR that you should sell off your best players for prospects.

That's exactly how you get into a perpetual cycle of developing guys and selling them off as soon as they reach their prime. You become a AAAA team like Seattle or Kansas city. Imagine what the royals would look like this year if they still had guys like melky cabrera, Zack grienke, Jose bautista just to name a few on the current roster. Obviously they couldn't have kept everyone and they got some good pieces too, but they'd be contenders if they hadn't traded away alot of their star players for prospects year after year.

I realize we can't afford everyone, but trading some of our better guys for prospects at this point in our teams development is the wrong move. I don't think we are that far away.

[Orioles0615]

I think consider ourselves legit sellers is kind of a moot point since we just signed our best trade piece and the one guy that would bring us a legit return to a long term deal.

Not that I disagree with that deal.

[DrungoHazewood]

I just don't think an Angelos/Duquette team is going to sell off anything. Their plan is to field as competitive a major league team as possible while building up the farm for the future. We may see some deals involving guys like Matusz or Tillman and/or a reliever for talent that can help right away. But I just don't see dealing any of the core talent (Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Hardy, Hammel, Chen, Johnson) for guys in the mid-to-low minors.

[TheBee]

Frobby said it earlier. The team should and (hopefully) will be constantly evaluating their position for the next month. I believe there are currently 16 non-division leading teams within 5.5 games of the wildcard slots. We are not alone in this situation. I do think anyone thinking that Duquette should start the process of being a seller today is living in a fantasy and video game baseball world because no real general manager in the real world starts openly beginning the process of selling pieces away from a team that as of right this minute would be a wilcard rep in the AL. The message that would be sent out would be obviously negative. It would create strife and confusion in the clubhouse, turmoil in the media, would likely further damage perceptions about the franchise outside of Baltimore, would hurt ticket sales when they are gaining momentum, and most importantly - could potentially be akin to career suicide because any drop off record-wise , whether it was related or not would be blamed on the GM's moves. The "what ifs" could potentially haunt him for years. You can argue all you want that he should become a seller now, but he won't. He will do the intelligent thing for his team and his career. He'll do what Frobby said and conservatively try to improve the team if he can while watching their performance over the next few weeks.

[Pickles]

I just don't think an Angelos/Duquette team is going to sell off anything. Their plan is to field as competitive a major league team as possible while building up the farm for the future. We may see some deals involving guys like Matusz or Tillman and/or a reliever for talent that can help right away. But I just don't see dealing any of the core talent (Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Hardy, Hammel, Chen, Johnson) for guys in the mid-to-low minors.

I agree they're not going to be selling. Even if they don't make the playoffs, they want to win as many games as possible this year.

And I can't say I disagree with them. Some moves on the periphery is fine, both selling and buying, but trading any of the core talent at the ML level, or the MiL level, would be foolish for a team that really isn't that far away from competing.

I think if this season has shown us something, is that a lot of the people who claimed we were 31st out of 32 teams in talent level (cough, Sportsguy, cough) were dead wrong.

This team really isn't that far away from being an annual contender.

[TheBee]

I just don't think an Angelos/Duquette team is going to sell off anything. Their plan is to field as competitive a major league team as possible while building up the farm for the future. We may see some deals involving guys like Matusz or Tillman and/or a reliever for talent that can help right away. But I just don't see dealing any of the core talent (Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Hardy, Hammel, Chen, Johnson) for guys in the mid-to-low minors.

I agree. I could imagine a scenario where Johnson gets moved but find it unlikely to happen.

[Pickles]

I agree. I could imagine a scenario where Johnson gets moved but find it unlikely to happen.

I can't imagine that scenario. I think that's totally unrealistic.

I could see another BP arm moving, but I think JJ and Strop aren't going anywhere.

[mi_oriolesfan]

Man o' man, every single loss, everyone turns into an expert and picks this team to pieces.

LOOK AT ME. I AM EXPERT. WATCH ME POINT OUT ALL THE PROBLEMS.

Seriously, we lost one game. Yes, there are things to work on. But don't instantly turn everything into a wash and say the team is garbage. They've done incredibly well this year. Rewind a few years. Would you really be complaining?

[Mondo Trasho]

Wait what???? Matusz was terrible all night long' date=' what game were you watching? The Angels ran themselves out of two potentially huge innings, giving Matusz big outs with men on base when he and his 87 mph fastball were getting rocked all over the park.

The scoreline doesn't come close to accurately reflecting how bad he was in that game. How can people defend that performance, if you even want to call it that?[/quote']

Matusz is what Matusz is at this point. Considering that he's had worse outings (including the 2 inning debacle against Boston) I'll take 5 innings and 3 runs any day even with horrible pitching. He's the 5th best on our current 4 man rotation. Given all of that, I'm not worried about the team as a whole.

Back when we were really hot in May I thought this team as currently constructed was an 85 win team, maybe more (maybe less too I suppose) if they could steal a few games here or there or if another team totally fell off the table. I still feel that way today.

[slowey404]

Baseball is full of pecks and valleys. Currently our offense is in a Valley. Last night game with any clutch hitting they would have won despite Matusz start, an infielder playing LF.

See a lot people wanting to point out the 3-40 with RISP over the last 7 games. Anyone wants to point out the 6 games before that when they went 18-53.

Before that people point at the 13 games at the end of May and Early June were they won only 3 of those 13 games. How did they respond by winning 9 of the next 12.

People wanting to be sellers or these post after every lost, is a pretty good definition of a reactionary post.

I do not think this team is perfect starting pitching struggles at time, defense has its problem, I think a true Outfield would have caught Trout double and Pujols HR last night. But this season has be fun, were almost finished June and there is a very good chance we will have 3 straight winning months.

Baseball Season is 162 games, no one has every gone 162-0